FR-S vs. 370z, end all be all of discussions

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by midenginebias

Maybe in terms of subtle handling dynamics, but in terms of the general population wanting a car, they'll go for the Mustang. Give up 0.04g over 100hp at the same price point?

That doesn't make sense to most.

The general population will buy the car based off the looks, mpg, and dealer incentives, IF they truly have a neutral bias between the comparison, and the pricing is similar. Looks alone will win some buyers between the FR-S and the Mustang.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

They could make the Stang handle like a Ferrari and I still would only drive one if there were no other options. I just came back from round 2 of Formula D and there was a sick Stang on display. As sick as I thought it was, don't think I still could drive own one.

Hahaha, Dragon, I just got back from Road Atlanta myself! yeah, the NFS mustang or whatever....honestly, the black/green was kicking my ass pretty bad. It looked slick as hell. I'd certainly drive one, but would probably never own one.

It was my first time going since '07, where I had gone 3 years in a row('05,'06,'07)....it sure has changed. I was stoked to see Dai back in a 13, only to be heartbroken its running a V-8, like basically every other car out there. ALMOST got an AE86 podium finish though. Mr.John was tearing it up. Couldn't believe Taka had engine issues....talk about one of the worst ways to get knocked out, but eh, thats a 4A-GE for ya.

Sad about Gushi's tC too. I was excited after watching him in qualifying/practice to see it compete. If I'm not mistaken, his diff kerploded or something. The hell is he running under the hood? Is it a turbo 2AR?

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Maxim

The Mustang family of cars really are the vehicles to beat in terms of affordable performance.

I agree 100%, but for those of us wanting a fun and reasonably efficient daily driver for town and country road driving, the Mustang might not be the best choice:

Originally Posted by Deslock

though its handling is decent, 3450 pounds isn't as fun on tight, gradient changing, rural twisties. And I seldom drive on highways, so the Mustang's 19 MPG city is a significant disadvantage (though its 31 MPG highway is impressive).

The Toyobaru's shorter wheelbase is also appealing.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Hahaha, Dragon, I just got back from Road Atlanta myself! yeah, the NFS mustang or whatever....honestly, the black/green was kicking my ass pretty bad. It looked slick as hell. I'd certainly drive one, but would probably never own one.

It was my first time going since '07, where I had gone 3 years in a row('05,'06,'07)....it sure has changed. I was stoked to see Dai back in a 13, only to be heartbroken its running a V-8, like basically every other car out there. ALMOST got an AE86 podium finish though. Mr.John was tearing it up. Couldn't believe Taka had engine issues....talk about one of the worst ways to get knocked out, but eh, thats a 4A-GE for ya.

Sad about Gushi's tC too. I was excited after watching him in qualifying/practice to see it compete. If I'm not mistaken, his diff kerploded or something. The hell is he running under the hood? Is it a turbo 2AR?

OH SNAP! Damn I wish I knew you were going. Could have chilled and chatted. But yeah the RTR Stang from JR's imagination is definitely sick.

The AE86's in the lot are all running off of turbo S2k motors...crazy. Every car is essentially V6 or V8 swapped or powered. Only 4bangers in the lot are the two tC's, and the AE86's. And the only cars with their original motors (besides the ones that already come with V8's...like the Camaro) are the two Scions.

Gushi was RIPPING it EVERY run. Man I chatted with him a bit to let him know he was killin it. Chatted with Aasbo some. I was expecting Gushi to take it to the podium that night. But come top 16 yep...blown diff on the GRID!!!! Bummer.

Gushi = 2az 790hp running a GT3788 turbo

Aasbo tC = 2011 tC with 2ar 5xxhp (not sure about turbo)

So, both tC's have their original factory motors in them which puts a smile on my face...

[midenginebias]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

The general population will buy the car based off the looks, mpg, and dealer incentives, IF they truly have a neutral bias between the comparison, and the pricing is similar. Looks alone will win some buyers between the FR-S and the Mustang.

I disagree. I think sports car buyers or the general population are looking for best overall value in a vehicle. I think the FR-S is much more of a strict enthusiasts car while the Mustang is more for the masses.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

That's fine....and they could make an FR-S handle like a Zonda, but with the same horsepower as a Civic.....I'll never own one.


I mean unless it handles boost like a champ on stock internals that is

I enjoy Modding my car, so its power rating doesn't bother me. I will make more power from day one. Modding a Mustang though wouldn't make me happy because I'm not into Mustang's. Same with Vette's, they are bad ass, but I wouldn't own one. Not even a ZR1.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

OH SNAP! Damn I wish I knew you were going. Could have chilled and chatted. But yeah the RTR Stang from JR's imagination is definitely sick.

The AE86's in the lot are all running off of turbo S2k motors...crazy. Every car is essentially V6 or V8 swapped or powered. Only 4bangers in the lot are the two tC's, and the AE86's. And the only cars with their original motors (besides the ones that already come with V8's...like the Camaro) are the two Scions.

Gushi was RIPPING it EVERY run. Man I chatted with him a bit to let him know he was killin it. Chatted with Aasbo some. I was expecting Gushi to take it to the podium that night. But come top 16 yep...blown diff on the GRID!!!! Bummer.

Gushi = 2az 790hp running a GT3788 turbo

Aasbo tC = 2011 tC with 2ar 5xxhp (not sure about turbo)

So, both tC's have their original factory motors in them which puts a smile on my face...

...grudging respect for the Scion teams...

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

OH SNAP! Damn I wish I knew you were going. Could have chilled and chatted. But yeah the RTR Stang from JR's imagination is definitely sick.

The AE86's in the lot are all running off of turbo S2k motors...crazy. Every car is essentially V6 or V8 swapped or powered. Only 4bangers in the lot are the two tC's, and the AE86's. And the only cars with their original motors (besides the ones that already come with V8's...like the Camaro) are the two Scions.

Yeah, that is a bummer. Funny thing, I probably saw you and vice versa and didn't know it. I spent most the pit time hanging out at Gushi's and Taka's pit areas.
Correction my friend..Mr. John and the Privateer green coupe were running turbo S2K motors, Taka is STILL repping a turbo Formula Atlantic 4A-GE. However, its rumored he'll switch to the 2AR for next years competition. As sad as it is, Taka's gotta do what he's gotta do. Eventually the 4A would have to be decommissioned, specially with this onslaught of super torque V-8's. Think it has something to do with the new bonus point rule on entry/exit speeds. But as long as there are still AE86's on the field, I'll be there cheering them on.

I think a few of the Z's are still using their VQ's as well, in regards to original motors, as well as the RX-7's and RX-8's. That purple RX-8 was RETARDEDLY fast and don't get me started on the black one, lol.

Gushi was RIPPING it EVERY run. Man I chatted with him a bit to let him know he was killin it. Chatted with Aasbo some. I was expecting Gushi to take it to the podium that night. But come top 16 yep...blown diff on the GRID!!!! Bummer.
.

790HP!!!??? His car sounds absolutely amazing. Was right there in the pit when he was testing it, revving it, before going out for a practice run. Its engine sound gave me shivers down the spine. It was a sound for sore ears, having heard the blumbering rumble of American pushrod V-8's all afternoon. There were times where I couldn't tell if I was at a drag show or a drift event. And he was doing exceptionally great on his runs. Our group pinpointed him as one of the top to win it all. It was a two-strike heartbreak for me. Gushi and Taka both out due to technical failures.

You know I forgot to ask Gush, or any of his crew members, about SR's plans with the FR-S in future FD's...will it appear at next years event, or will they wait a year, who will drive 'em, etc.

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Yeah, that is a bummer. Funny thing, I probably saw you and vice versa and didn't know it. I spent most the pit time hanging out at Gushi's and Taka's pit areas.
Correction my friend..Mr. John and the Privateer green coupe were running turbo S2K motors, Taka is STILL repping a turbo Formula Atlantic 4A-GE. However, its rumored he'll switch to the 2AR for next years competition. As sad as it is, Taka's gotta do what he's gotta do. Eventually the 4A would have to be decommissioned, specially with this onslaught of super torque V-8's. Think it has something to do with the new bonus point rule on entry/exit speeds. But as long as there are still AE86's on the field, I'll be there cheering them on.

I think a few of the Z's are still using their VQ's as well, in regards to original motors, as well as the RX-7's and RX-8's. That purple RX-8 was RETARDEDLY fast and don't get me started on the black one, lol.
790HP!!!??? His car sounds absolutely amazing. Was right there in the pit when he was testing it, revving it, before going out for a practice run. Its engine sound gave me shivers down the spine. It was a sound for sore ears, having heard the blumbering rumble of American pushrod V-8's all afternoon. There were times where I couldn't tell if I was at a drag show or a drift event. And he was doing exceptionally great on his runs. Our group pinpointed him as one of the top to win it all. It was a two-strike heartbreak for me. Gushi and Taka both out due to technical failures.

You know I forgot to ask Gush, or any of his crew members, about SR's plans with the FR-S in future FD's...will it appear at next years event, or will they wait a year, who will drive 'em, etc.

Yeah, who knows I probably did see you in passing...lol. There were 3 86's, I guess two were S2k powered. And Taka is reppin the 4ag. Cool, Cool. But he is about to drop a 2ar in there? Oh snap that + boost on the 86 = BEAST! I know, curse'ed right...lol. But yeah so many V8's, you got to do what you got to do to stay in the game.

Yeah there were a couple of Z's with turbo VQ's. But I was lumping them in with the V6 crowd and the V8 crowd. Then the rest of the Z's (even Chris Foresbergs 370z) have motor swapped V8's.

OMG! Joon Meng's RX8 = SICK ANGLE! That 8 was crazy...until it broke coming out of the Horseshoe. 3 rotoray sounded sick too.

I wonder what exhaust setup is on Gushi's car. I haven't looked up the full specs yet, but yea 790hp (high 6's to the wheels). I would be lying if I didn't say I was proud of the 2az for it's economy roots but ability to dish the pain on boost.

I'm going to make a thread with the pics I took, feel free to add any pics you have to it. Or if you already made a thread, I'll add mine to it.

[Zorro]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

I like Ford a lot lately....I wouldn't want to BUY a Mustang. Maybe on next full redesign it'd be ok.

Same here. I much prefer the 4th gen look over this new retro garbage.

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

I like Ford a lot lately....I wouldn't want to BUY a Mustang. Maybe on next full redesign it'd be ok.

I have to agree with you there Desertspool, Ford has really picked up it's game lately. They still don't make cars that I would buy. I compared the Fiesta to the Mazda2 and it was no contest, I'd pick the 2.

Although I'd never drive a Mustang myself, as I don't care for that size of car, my dad would love a Mustang GT.

[FR-HachiRoku]

If I get the FR-S next year I'll have to probably sell my 03 Mustang Mach 1 unfortunately

[Dragonitti]

Originally Posted by DesertSpool

If the new Focus ST is anywhere near as cool as it appears to be, that might be my next ride to get me through my PharmD.

The WRX is the other option.

Gotta throw my puppy somewhere!

You mind editing your sig to make it more distinguishable so people don't mistake your post for mine. Thanks.

[Maxim]

Originally Posted by midenginebias

Maybe in terms of subtle handling dynamics, but in terms of the general population wanting a car, they'll go for the Mustang. Give up 0.04g over 100hp at the same price point?

That doesn't make sense to most.

And therein lies the issue. A buyer of the Mustang won't be giving up .04g in lateral acceleration. In fact, I'd be willing to bet money that the opposite is true. The Mustang GT with the brembo brake package and summer tires is pulling .99g. Think about that.

In terms of handling limits, I promise, the Mustang GT (or the V6 performance package, which has the same limits but better weight distribution) will have higher limits than the FT-86/FR-S.

I think truthfully, the only metric that the FR-S will beat the Mustang in will be transient response (aka emergency lane change and slalom). The FR-S will have much narrower tires (and I'd be willing to bet, due to the price point, lower performing ones as well).

The Mustang also has absolutely stellar steering feel (seriously, drive one, they're incredibly surprising). The FR-S will be slower, have lower handling limits, lap slower, and probably will not beat the gas mileage of a v-6 mustang by more than 2-3 MPG. It will also cost about the same as the v-6.

Where the FR-S will win out is likely in handling feel and transient response. Low speed handling and initial turn-in will beat the mustang. It will feel much different than the mustang while it goes about it's business.

In short, because of the incredibly good job that Ford has done on all versions of the mustang, the FR-S is going to have some serious competition. The mustang is roomier, faster, will have higher handling limits, be faster on anything but an extremely tight autocross course, and will be able to carry more stuff.

The only place the FR-S will come out on top is the feel..and that's only if they get it absolutely spot on. It's enough of a factor that the Mazda Miata continues to sell excellently based solely on that, so it's not like it's nothing. But the choice will be very difficult. This car is entering into an EXTREMELY competitive market segment (performance 2+2 coupe) and unless Toyota can really keep the costs down and succeed in a major way with the aftermarket (and I do not mean Scion dealer-installed stuff), the car will likely not sell very well. Look at the Mazda RX-8 for an example of how a great car can sell extremely poorly.

I want this car to succeed as much as anybody because I've been jonesing for a lightweight RWD performance car for a long time. But it's still going to be a hard sell. I have no brand loyalty, like many of you do have, and so I will buy whatever gives me the best warm and fuzzy feeling. I think in terms of performance cars, I'm a good example of an enthusiast. I'm a horrible example of the average car-buyer though, because those people buy almost solely based on looks and price.