Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[mycrors7]

From an owner in japan with a brz
9/21 build date
11k miles. 6-7 track days. 8 oil changes
Motor failed on track and was taken apart by a local shop(not a dealer)

[Chev]

Toyota Brand Engagement Center (1-800-331-4331)

I suggest everyone call. Let these guys know we have a voice and will use it.

[Ghost of Akina]

Kind of glad I waited to nab one… hopefully Toyota and Subaru take this seriously and address it!

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by BioRebel

While it wouldn't PREVENT the issue from happening, it would force the re-application of sealant and the removal of "excess" sealant. I feel like its more of a "while you're in there you may as well just add this additional preventative measure".
I mean this whole thing could likely be solved if the dealers just removed the pan and replaced the sealant when they get the car.


Anyone know if installing a baffle plate would void the warranty? MM seems to say the dealer would need to prove that the plate contributed to the failure in order to void the claim.

It may not be just the pan that is the issue. Could be the timing cover too. After the J02 debacle would you want dealer techs dropping engines to reseal them?

[Espi]

Looks like it's making its way in the news

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...repair-denied/

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

It may not be just the pan that is the issue. Could be the timing cover too. After the J02 debacle would you want dealer techs dropping engines to reseal them?

What still confuses me is that the oil pan and method of sealing it are identical to the Ascent FA24F and all the newer 2.5 engines. This means hundreds of thousands of cars a year for at least the last 5 years should be exposed to the same risk. There is not one word about any other models with the same issue. If it is just the oil pan sealant then what is different about the FA24D that creates the problem?
I feel there is still a piece of the puzzle that hasn't been found yet.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Espi

Looks like it's making its way in the news

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a4...repair-denied/

2

[spcmafia]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What still confuses me is that the oil pan and method of sealing it are identical to the Ascent FA24F and all the newer 2.5 engines. This means hundreds of thousands of cars a year for at least the last 5 years should be exposed to the same risk. There is not one word about any other models with the same issue. If it is just the oil pan sealant then what is different about the FA24D that creates the problem?
I feel there is still a piece of the puzzle that hasn't been found yet.

Maybe Subaru and Toyota want to ensure to offer a true 86/BRZ experience by introducing new owners to the 1st gen woes. You know, to get them up to speed on what it really means to own a twin.



Another thing is that, depending if something like the sealant is not made in-house, it is very possible that a bad lot was sent to Subaru. Which can happen, we see it happen at my workplace quite often. So the problem could be solved by now, and both manufacturers will have to issue a recall based on the VINs that were manufactured using the bad lot.

[Espi]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

2

i missed it my bad - thanks lol

[Varelco]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What still confuses me is that the oil pan and method of sealing it are identical to the Ascent FA24F and all the newer 2.5 engines. This means hundreds of thousands of cars a year for at least the last 5 years should be exposed to the same risk. There is not one word about any other models with the same issue. If it is just the oil pan sealant then what is different about the FA24D that creates the problem?
I feel there is still a piece of the puzzle that hasn't been found yet.

It seems that most failures are caused through the higher demands of track use/high RPM running. It may be that because no one tracks an Ascent, it's not a problem as it can get sufficient oil through the other side's of the strainer for normal every day driving.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Espi

i missed it my bad - thanks lol

You won't be the last!

[ninjan00dles]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

What still confuses me is that the oil pan and method of sealing it are identical to the Ascent FA24F and all the newer 2.5 engines. This means hundreds of thousands of cars a year for at least the last 5 years should be exposed to the same risk. There is not one word about any other models with the same issue. If it is just the oil pan sealant then what is different about the FA24D that creates the problem?
I feel there is still a piece of the puzzle that hasn't been found yet.

All the other FA24 derivatives have a redline around 6000rpm. The GRZ86 has a 7400rpm so it's operating at higher frequencies. Higher frequency means more oscillation, potential to approach resonance etc. Combine those higher revs with certain "kinematic" events (ie HPDE, drifting) and you are increasing the likelihood of that excessively applied RTV to peel away and clog the pickup. So that's probably why you don't see these issues on Subaru's SUV/CUVs.

Also - not really covered here but is covered extensively on the Japanese forums. There isn't just excessive RTV at the oil pan. It's also excessively applied at the timing cover. So just resealing your oil pan or using a felpro gasket (which kinda blow anyways) wouldn't fix it.

Bottom-line Subaru is still figuring out how to produce a performance motor... I mean they never fixed the EJ series. And the FA20 really didn't get fully fixed until the 17MY refresh. I thought we were past this, but I guess not.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Varelco

It seems that most failures are caused through the higher demands of track use/high RPM running. It may be that because no one tracks an Ascent, it's not a problem as it's can get sufficient oil through the other side's of the strainer for normal every day driving.

Possible. But they are also towing and being pushed hard in other ways.
Just tracking should not be a reason. Will have to see if there are many that were not tracked.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ninjan00dles

All the other FA24 derivatives have a redline around 6000rpm. The GRZ86 has a 7400rpm so it's operating at higher frequencies. Higher frequency means more oscillation, potential to approach resonance etc. Combine those higher revs with certain "kinematic" events (ie HPDE, drifting) and you are increasing the likelihood of that excessively applied RTV to peel away and clog the pickup. So that's probably why you don't see these issues on Subaru's SUV/CUVs.

Also - not really covered here but is covered extensively on the Japanese forums. There isn't just excessive RTV at the oil pan. It's also excessively applied at the timing cover. So just resealing your oil pan or using a felpro gasket (which kinda blow anyways) wouldn't fix it.

Bottom-line Subaru is still figuring out how to produce a performance motor... I mean they never fixed the EJ series. And the FA20 really didn't get fully fixed until the 17MY refresh. I thought we were past this, but I guess not.

Actually if the issue is appearing with the timing chain cover that can also be the difference. The oil pan is the same across them all but the timing cover is not.