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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING] |
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06-14-2019, 02:36 AM | #1 |
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2018 Camaro SS 1LE vs Spuds' FRS
So I passed up the opportunity to drive my friend’s 2018 Camaro SS 1LE … said no-one ever. For anyone who isn’t aware of the Camaro I’m talking about, the SS trim comes with the 6.2L V8 engine, and the 1LE means this comes with the track performance package. Wheels, tires, brakes, LSD, exhaust, suspension, chassis, aero, and interior are all significantly upgraded in pursuit of speed and driving enjoyment. I wound up being able to drive the Camaro and my FRS back-to-back because, well, why not?
Spud’s Car: 2013 FRS, MT -OFT stage1 + intake stuff -RPF1s with (<500mile) Yokohama Advan V105 215/45 -Perrin Brake MC brace + Shifter Bushing -Clutch slave mod -Rear seat delete Friends’s Car: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE -Stock -Has 3 pedals, like it should For this comparison, Im going to focus on the driving experience, setting aside all practicality, upkeep, efficiency, and cost concerns. The driving experience includes interior comfort, control feel, chassis behavior, performance, and other sensations such as sound and feedback. The environment for this evaluation is rural PA winding back roads through rolling hills, forest, and farmland. For anyone who thinks that I am stacking the deck in the FRS’s favor, here is the foil. In terms of driving experience, the Camaro is the better car. Seating Position, Visibility, Interior: The Camaro’s upgraded Recaro seats are very comfortable and I think the driving position I found in 15 seconds is just slightly better than the FRS. I put that down as better steering wheel placement (closer to me and higher). And then I looked in the mirrors, and laughed. The car actually has good visibility in the 180 degrees in front of you considering the high belt and low roof. However, my guess is that the engineers and designers at GM assumed no Camaro driver would care about seeing what is behind them. One of the more surprising elements in this comparison was just how strange the FRS felt when I got back in it after driving the Camaro. In the Camaro, you are deep inside the car, looking out of the car through a horizontal slit. When looking forwards, I saw the dashboard, followed by the hood, followed by the road. In the FRS, while one is definitely still in the car, it is less noticeable. Looking out the windshield, you just see the road and two little bumps to show you where your wheels are located. Both cars give a good field of view around the horizontal plane, but the FRS has a much better visibility vertically. I’m fairly certain this is how Toyoburu got the twins to feel fast, as the road seems to move by quicker when the part you are seeing is closer to you. Interior-wise, they are both good driver’s cars as all controls are positioned appropriately. The Camaro has higher quality materials, but that’s not surprising. I didn’t try out the radio in the Camaro, but the auxiliary gas-powered sound system is excellent . Suspension, Handling, Controls: Except for short stints in Track and Touring modes to try them out, I drove the Camaro in Sport mode. Sport mode is the right call IMO for street driving. My FRS’s nannies have been shoved in a deep hole somewhere, never to be let loose again (all off). I wasn’t expecting to say this, but the Camaro *1LE*’s (and that’s the important part here) handling is phenomenal. There is of course, the obvious handling performance you get from just the ridiculously sticky 285 and 305 width tires, but that isn’t what I am talking about here. The magnetic ride control suspension and chassis tuning on this car makes you forget that it weighs as much as a crossover (3750lb). On turn in, there isn’t any shifting of weight or waiting for it to take a set. It just goes in the direction you point it, then glides over imperfections and bumps, communicating them through steering feel, but isolating the chassis completely. The Camaro’s steering was actually more communicative than the FRS’s (gasp! right?), and the brakes were very confidence-inspiring, though I prefer the slightly firmer pedal in the FRS. The FRS, on the other hand, has a rawness to it that demands more driver focus for similar pace, if possible. Road features that a Camaro driver can usually ignore, such as bumps or sudden camber changes, will cause the FRS to become unsettled if the driver is inattentive to them. Like the chassis, the FRS driver needs to be on-edge, while the Camaro driver can relax and enjoy the drive. The Camaro’s competence is a double-edged sword however, as simply driving quickly on back roads can become trivial. More than once I looked at the speed and was a bit shocked at how fast I was driving. Shifting gears (pun intended), the clutch pedal on the Camaro is absolute garbage. I get that it has to actuate a big-boy pressure plate, but the throw is excessive and vague. It’s far worse than the FRS’s was, even stock. As for the shifters, both the Camaro’s and FRS’s have precise, short throws. I think the Camaro had a shorter throw with better defined gates, but was let down by the clutch so much that my shifts were always slow. But the auto-rev matching downshifts were pretty damn cool. Really good idea in the Camaro, though the FRS is better off without it due to the type of car it is. With regards to handling, the FRS is like a dancer. It’s athletic, precise, nimble, and delivers an experience to those that appreciate that art. The Camaro is more like a football running back or receiver. It is also athletic, precise, and nimble, but more purposeful and directed towards a clear goal. The Go Pedal: Alright, here it is, the elephant in the room. The Camaro is not just fast, but effortlessly fast. I already mentioned that I often had to check my speed, not realizing how fast it was. You press the pedal, and it goes. You press harder, it goes faster. You downshift and floor it, it gives you a concussion. Going back to the FRS, it felt like I was standing still even running it out in 2nd gear. However, the Camaro left me wanting more out of the top end, where the FRS actually does well. It must have lost nearly an FRS’s worth of torque between 5krpm and the 6.5-ish redline, which felt a bit anticlimactic to me. But that midrange tho… Throttle response is good in both cars. I think the FRS’s initial response is slightly quicker on average. I cannot express in words the sound the Camaro makes. The 1LE package includes dual-mode exhaust and in loud mode, oh boy is it loud in all the right ways. I think I’m actually suffering from V8 withdrawal. The FRS engine note is… well, I guess I could LS swap it. Summary: At the beginning of this comparison, I expressed that the Camaro is the better car, and I stand by this. It is more comfortable, faster, sounds better, and has more competent handling than the FRS. It may then surprise you that I would still take the FRS for a drive if given the choice between the two. My reason you ask? Though the Camaro may be the better car, the FRS is a better go-kart. |
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06-14-2019, 03:36 AM | #2 |
Damn that's crazy...
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Great in-depth comparison. I have a close friend who has a 2014 SS and his mom has a 2016 both convertibles. I’ve been in both and needless to say, it’s two completely different worlds. In the Camaro, go means go. Not “wait till 5k rpm then go” lol the power is incredible and you’re right about the anticlimactic top end, but maybe we’re used to the higher redline lol The interior isn’t too bad. I like the materials and the leather seats are pretty comfortable. The handling in theirs is not so great though. Not sure if it’s because it’s not the 1LE but it’s bad. I also prefer our seating position. Either way they’re great cars even stock. Most of my friends have American cars and it’s very interesting to see the differences in all. Always take the opportunities to drive something different. In the end, I’d take my go-kart over them all, even if it means being last on the highway lol
Last edited by Will BRZ; 06-14-2019 at 07:44 AM. |
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06-14-2019, 10:59 AM | #3 |
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"Effortlessly fast" can become a bit of a curse after a while. Know a few guys I work with who have Mustang GT, C63 and they said that while it was fun initially to hear the rumble and feel power, it becomes frustrating because they can't even use 10% of that power on the road. Its like being an Olympic swimmer stuck in a kiddie size pool. Sure if you live near a track, it's good thing but how many of us do. They also feel the pain more when stuck in traffic and the big thirsty V8 suck up the gas. I struggled with choosing between a muscle car and the BRZ and ended up with the BRZ because I can drive the car reasonably hard on the road without getting it impounded.
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06-14-2019, 10:59 AM | #4 | |
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06-14-2019, 01:30 PM | #5 |
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The Camaro is one helluva car. My brother has a 700HP ZL1. It is smooth, comfortable and brutally fast. He also has not one but two 2ZZ swapped MR2 Spyders like mine. He uses the Camaro for cruising to the store and car shows but when he wants to go out and rip and tear on winding country roads he takes the Spyder. Why? It is the same reason as mentioned above. While the Camaro is more than competent as a canyon carver it can quickly land you in jail because it is so effortlessly fast. The Spyder, much like a FR-S/86/BRZ can be relatively quick on the twisties too but you have to become involved and work at it and you will probably not see three digits on the speedometer on the short straights connecting the curves. Sometimes less is more (fun).
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Last edited by Rampage; 06-14-2019 at 01:45 PM. |
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06-14-2019, 01:44 PM | #6 |
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The newest generation Camaros are amazing cars for the money. Had this version been available in '12 when I bought the FRS I would have probably ended up with the Camaro (it was on my list at the time).
Of course, we are talking about something that costs, what, about $43,000 minimum? That's what I come up with to meet the description. A good deal, but for that price differential it should beat the 86.
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06-14-2019, 01:50 PM | #7 | |
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ZL1 is a beast. I think it put Europeans super cars to shame. It costs way less but deliver on par performance as a Lambo and Ferrari. Its the people's car beating the aristocrats! |
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06-14-2019, 03:20 PM | #8 | |
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06-14-2019, 04:40 PM | #9 |
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They're just very different cars. Lots of power isn't frustrating. Being unable to pass is frustrating. Being able to wring out a car is fun, though.
One thing really kills the truly sporting fun of a Camaro on the street: it's too wide. I'd even say the twins are marginally too wide, but the extra 5 inches of Camaro width is really a deal killer on narrow back roads. On the track, width doesn't matter. On a back road when you need to stay in your lane, width is a huge deal. Just as a narrow car can go faster through a slalom, it can do the same on a narrow road.
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06-14-2019, 04:51 PM | #10 | |
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06-14-2019, 05:27 PM | #11 |
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Yeah that seems about right for sticker, but buying a leftover 2018 brings it to mid-30s as was the case with this one. There are still more out there too. And here people are saying the twins have sales problems. $7k for the 1LE package I guess is hard to justify to the average SS buyer who sees a spec sheet and can't tell the difference.
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06-14-2019, 06:48 PM | #12 | |
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Olivia 05/03/2012 - 01/06/2024. 231,146 glorious miles.
Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark. What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk". |
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06-15-2019, 02:42 PM | #13 | |
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06-16-2019, 10:11 PM | #14 |
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I wonder if the V6 1LE is the better choice here if you're not going for time.
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