Don't like my Fortune Auto 500's, rebuild them?

[wulfgang]

I have a set of FA 500s with <10k miles on them and finally went back to OEM suspension after not being able to find a comfortable setup. The damping is just not that great on the street, even with "just" 5k/6k springs rates. For example, it is not in the ballpark of say, a Bilstein PSS10 in terms of suppleness, and if I crank up the rebound, they get too stiff on the street while still blowing off on big bumps (making the car feel like it wallows).

Given that I already have these and that they are rebuildable, is there something I can do to upgrade them with better internals? I feel like they are pretty close to being a decent set of coilovers, and it is also nice to have the top hats.

Another option is to sell them and get something else. I'm not into big drops; I need maybe 3/4" just to reduce the wheel gap. The seat is already low and I'm getting old, so don't want to go lower :-) So I suppose a shock/spring combo would be fine in theory, if I could find one that performs better than the FA 500 coilovers AND rides 3/4+" below stock.

This is a street, track, auto-x car, and although I don't DD it, I do want it to remain comfy.

[Interflop]

I'm currently in the same dilemma as you. I have to replace my factory shocks soon and I'm debating between a set of coilovers like KW V1s or a set of Bilstein shocks and lowering springs.

[strat61caster]

A rebuild will make them feel like new but if you didn't like them when they were new then that would be pointless.

A revalve could potentially get the car to feel as best as possible with those spring rates, if the revalve is 'correct' for what you want. (the short summary is that a revalve changes how the damper performs, pretty much any damper of sufficient quality can be modified to perform exactly how you need it to until it wears out. If a Megan damper set has the exact same damping curve as a $10k Penske set they'll act the same. The trick is figuring out what you need, communicating that to a builder, and the builder being capable of executing) What guarantee do you have that the revalve will go the right way? Not much unless the company/person doing the revalve offers some sort of guarantee, that's why local rebuilders are suggested along with nationally known rebuilders with good reputations.

Suspension setups are a bit of a gamble unless you can try before you buy or have the funds to experiment. I've had three different dampers on my car, currently riding on my OEM w/ ~47k miles on them and it's not nearly as comfortable as I expected it to be, which means either this car always rode rough for me or the dampers have worn out, I suspect it's a bit of column A and a bit of column B. But enough about my problems.

https://fortune-auto.com/service/

FA charges $100 per corner to revalve, likely not including shipping which is probably going to be close to another $100. The dyno graphs may not be necessary but would certainly be nice to have some level of confidence that you're getting what you paid for especially if you think you might sell them if you're not happy with the ride quality, it should make the resale go a bit easier, but you won't get much more for them than if you hadn't had them revalved.

imo if there's a chance you can get social and ride along in other cars to see what other suspensions feel like that may inform your decision more than any internet post possibly could. Maybe there is that holy grail out there for you off the shelf. If your research doesn't turn up anything that you want then a revalve from Fortune Auto (or another source) may be the ticket to happiness.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

If a Megan damper set has the exact same damping curve as a $10k Penske set they'll act the same.

No. Two things wrong with this:

1. You can get a damping curve on Penskes that you simply can't get on Megans. On basic Megans your stuck with a simple linear piston and although you can work some magic with the shimstack, you aren't going to be able to get some of the results you could get with Penskes. Digressive, double digressive, regressive curves. (leaving franken-Megans out of this).

2. Even if you had identical basic linear curves, there are a lot of other factors at play when it comes to what you feel. Gas pressure, friction, seal drag, shock fade, etc. There are things that don't show up on every shock dyno plot (i.e. CVP vs PVP plots) but are very noticeable even on the street.

And then there's the adjusters.

- Andrew

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

No. Two things wrong with this:

1. You can get a damping curve on Penskes that you simply can't get on Megans. On basic Megans your stuck with a simple linear piston and although you can work some magic with the shimstack, you aren't going to be able to get some of the results you could get with Penskes. Digressive, double digressive, regressive curves. (leaving franken-Megans out of this).

2. Even if you had identical basic linear curves, there are a lot of other factors at play when it comes to what you feel. Gas pressure, friction, seal drag, shock fade, etc. There are things that don't show up on every shock dyno plot (i.e. CVP vs PVP plots) but are very noticeable even on the street.

And then there's the adjusters.

- Andrew

1. Fair. The options are greater with the bigger budget. That does not contradict the statement (nor does it make "franken-Megans" an invalid option), but it is a notable caveat.

2. Sure those things don't show up on the sanitized marketing version of dyno plot, but they can be tested for on the dyno and rectified before they ever leave the shop. I suppose "exact same" means different things to different people, to me it means under every test case they operate exactly the same.

The adjusters bump the price up over $10k

I never meant to imply that expensive shocks don't have value, only that tuning is everything. Let that be my amendment, in many cases you DO get what you pay for.

[chaoskaze]

get some tein flex A?

Or get the bilstein B6 + spring or oem sachs + sti spring

[wulfgang]

Thanks for the good suggestions. I would only consider a rebuild if it was done with different internals (i.e. not Fortune Auto). For example, on motorcycle forks, you can often get Ohlins internals put into an OEM fork, but I wasn't sure if that is even possible with adjustable shocks since everyone uses different bleed designs.

I'm also considering:

1. Install Swift springs on the coilovers. I'm hearing good things about Swift, but this seems like a bit of band-aid. I was thinking of going 5k/5k.

2. Just throw on some RCE yellows.

btw, I didn't mean to imply that my dampers need rebuilding. They still haven't traveled 10k miles yet.

[Icecreamtruk]

I find this weird. I use the FA510, maybe the difference between the 500 and 510 is that big, but with 6k/8k setup I can get it very soft or very hard, the adjustable range is huge. The softer setup feels softer than stock. The only 1 thing is that big or sudden bumps will still feel like crap, since the travel is a lot shorter. I feel that you wanted something more conformtable that stock, you probably looked at the wrong thing since very few setups feel softer than stock.

Edit: I am on swift springs, do not know how much of a difference that would make vs FA springs.

[MeisterR]

One of the issue I find with alot of suspension that really shows up on cars like the FR-S is the lack of a "reasonable" damper valving for McPherson Strut with light springs rate.
A lot of damper I see on the market are way over critical damping for the paired spring rate, and these really show up when you are using higher springs rate such as 5kg/mm or so.

There can be lot of reason why the ride isn't comfortable, my guess generally is the compression force cracking pressure being too high.
So a rebuild may or may not make a difference depending on the person doing it.

Like Racecomp said, the limit will be on the internal piston design also.
When you are driving on the freeway going over small expansion joint, it is a point that it is difficult to show on a dyno what a damper will do.
However, it is something that you will feel every time you get into the car and drive.

Jerrick

[wulfgang]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

I find this weird. I use the FA510, maybe the difference between the 500 and 510 is that big, but with 6k/8k setup I can get it very soft or very hard, the adjustable range is huge. The softer setup feels softer than stock. The only 1 thing is that big or sudden bumps will still feel like crap, since the travel is a lot shorter. I feel that you wanted something more conformtable that stock, you probably looked at the wrong thing since very few setups feel softer than stock.

Edit: I am on swift springs, do not know how much of a difference that would make vs FA springs.

Sure, the adjustment range is large, and I could set it up "softer than stock" as you say. But it's not really softer, it's just a large rate spring with no damping, which feels terrible on the street (the spring is still very stiff). It might be useful for showing people that it can be "softer than stock", but you would never drive with it that way for more than a few days before realizing the shortcomings.

I've had the chance to do back-to-back driving with PSS10 vs stock in an E46 M3 and now FA500 vs stock in this BRZ. In my opinion, the FA500 setup cannot be made to be more comfortable than stock, but the PSS10 was easily more comfortable than stock (I've tried PSS9 too, and they belong in the trash can -- unless you rebuild them without the bleed).

Now I know that's not apples to apples, and I'm not trying to suggest that I expect perfection in a budget coilover. My question was only to determine whether or not I can throw a little bit more money at these FA500s and get a decent upgrade in ride quality. It sounds like the answer is a "maybe" for Swifts and a "probably not" for a rebuild.

[Icecreamtruk]

Originally Posted by wulfgang

Sure, the adjustment range is large, and I could set it up "softer than stock" as you say. But it's not really softer, it's just a large rate spring with no damping, which feels terrible on the street (the spring is still very stiff). It might be useful for showing people that it can be "softer than stock", but you would never drive with it that way for more than a few days before realizing the shortcomings.

I've had the chance to do back-to-back driving with PSS10 vs stock in an E46 M3 and now FA500 vs stock in this BRZ. In my opinion, the FA500 setup cannot be made to be more comfortable than stock, but the PSS10 was easily more comfortable than stock (I've tried PSS9 too, and they belong in the trash can -- unless you rebuild them without the bleed).

Now I know that's not apples to apples, and I'm not trying to suggest that I expect perfection in a budget coilover. My question was only to determine whether or not I can throw a little bit more money at these FA500s and get a decent upgrade in ride quality. It sounds like the answer is a "maybe" for Swifts and a "probably not" for a rebuild.

Maybe the swift springs and the valving in the 510 makes a huge difference then, because I daily my car on almos teh softest settings in the streets of Montreal (you would be hard pressed to find worse in all of North America). Like I said, for small bumps they are fine or bumps where there arent holes but rather ondulations on the surface they are fine. Sudden drops like big potholes are still a pain, but they were a pain on stock suspension too, so I dont see the big deal there.

I think the FA500, while marketed as a street coilover, are more of a dual purpose (street / track) and some compromises were made. It seems you want soft, like really soft springs, possibly even softer than stock. Most likely what you want is progressive springs, not linear, so go with the Bilsteins or KV v1 or something similar. I dont think you'll find similar setups to your likings. Maybe try the mesiters, they seem like a street focused option? Cant really help there.

[JazzleSAURUS]

I think that springs on the FA's may help a little, but it's not the fix you're looking for. It seems like you want mid-range German coilover comfort and performance, from what is realistically an entry level offshore coilover assembled in the US.

Have you ridden in other 86's with suspension setups like a KW or a Bilstein? I'm going to guess that a set of ST's or T0's and you'd be happy with your ride.

[wulfgang]

I installed RCE yellows last weekend and got an alignment (-1.6 front camber, -1.5 rear). The car now feels and looks good.

The yellows are definitely a little bit stiffer than OEM, but not by much. Somehow they feel a little better than stock on big bumps, although that may just be placebo effect. On a curvy road, they feel great.

Thanks everyone, for the suggestions.