How common is torque dip?

[kev60625]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

i test drove a members here with a SC. Forgot name but has raven BRZ. 260hp, like 200 tq. I think thats when you feel it.


oh and this was w/o e85tune

Yeah, a SC will make the car feel faster than a lot of things on the road

Originally Posted by billwot

If you don't have enough torque, you're in the wrong gear!

I came from a modded WRX, so me saying I find it slow, is just me being too used to the WRX still. Like I said, a 2nd gear pull at 30 to redline doesn't even have the car moving at a scary rate at ALL. It's pretty disappointing, but only to me of course.

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by kev60625

I came from a modded WRX, so me saying I find it slow, is just me being too used to the WRX still. Like I said, a 2nd gear pull at 30 to redline doesn't even have the car moving at a scary rate at ALL. It's pretty disappointing, but only to me of course.

^ try push the car through a stretches of curves then do it again on WRX. Then you will know the difference. Straight line speed isn't what you gonna find on this car stock.


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[Big D Design]

I have driven many a 4 cylinder that just needs 3200rpm to even feel acceleration.

A couple of years ago I found this cherry S2000 for sale, down the street from where I lived. It was showroom condition with not a bolt looking anything but brand new. I really was going to buy this car to add to my collection. I drove there (about 5 miles) in my FRS and was doing my usual going to redline all the time and being the stooge I am. So I take the car for a drive and stretch out the motor and handling. S2000 handles very similar to my FRS ..... but the lack of torque in the lower rev range isn't there. So I really wanted to buy the car and told the owner that I would buy it for 20,000 (there was another guy that offered 19,000). So I get back in my FRS and head home. So I start driving the FRS hard and say to myself, what the heck are you doing buying a car inferior to the one you have. By the time I got home I was panicking. HERE I AM COMMITTING TO CAR THAT FEELS SLOWER THAN MINE. I tell my girl that I have to call the guy and cancel. That is what I did. The FRS low-end torque is really good for a 4cyl engine and makes the car so good on gas when you are just lugging around below 3,400rpm. I know that there is going to be many of you beating me down for calling the S2000 slower, but go ahead, I'm a big boy. All I have done to my FRS is lighten it by 50 pounds and 36 of that is unsprung weight. I love this engine and get gas mileage when I want it and go crazy rest of the time. What's not to like. Most Cayman owners admit that our cars are worthy. And some have even switched. I just wish we have that Cayman interior. I saw a brand new Boxter next to me a couple of days ago. Interior was wow factor.

Now if Alpha Romeo would put a manual trans in the 4C, (well that's another story).

[VTEC]

Originally Posted by kev60625

I added headers, front pipe, overpipe, an exhaust, and a tune. This "removed" the torque dip, but I still find the car to be slow

If I floor it from 2nd gear at 25-30, I don't even find myself accelerating really fast. It just feels slow to me, no torque at all. And this is with 35whp and 17whp added. I guess I really need to add a turbo or supercharger..

This engine really begs that you rev the shit out of it. All the good stuff is between 5000 and 7400 rpm. The rpms are too low for 25 mph in 2nd gear. When I'm stuck behind some fucker doing 25mph in a 35mph zone I keep it in 1st gear at like 4000 rpm until I have a big enough gap to change lanes. Then I mash the gas pedal all the way to 7400 rpm, which puts me right around the 35 mph speed limit. Of course if you already shifted out of 1st gear, then you are shit out of luck. And you are right, it's not very fast. You won't hit the 5000 rpm sweet spot in 2nd gear until you're at like 40 mph.

[Cal3000]

Originally Posted by kev60625

I added headers, front pipe, overpipe, an exhaust, and a tune. This "removed" the torque dip, but I still find the car to be slow

If I floor it from 2nd gear at 25-30, I don't even find myself accelerating really fast. It just feels slow to me, no torque at all. And this is with 35whp and 17whp added. I guess I really need to add a turbo or supercharger..

SC still kind of lacks torque when you are trying to accelerate in the lower rev range, however 1st gear feels like a rocket ship. :P
Pulling in 2nd from 25 is kind of a drag at first but ramps up after you hit 35 or so.

[Andrew025]

Originally Posted by Cal3000

SC still kind of lacks torque when you are trying to accelerate in the lower rev range, however 1st gear feels like a rocket ship. :P
Pulling in 2nd from 25 is kind of a drag at first but ramps up after you hit 35 or so.

Depends on which type of SC you have.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by kev60625

I added headers, front pipe, overpipe, an exhaust, and a tune. This "removed" the torque dip, but I still find the car to be slow

If I floor it from 2nd gear at 25-30, I don't even find myself accelerating really fast. It just feels slow to me, no torque at all. And this is with 35whp and 17whp added. I guess I really need to add a turbo or supercharger..

I have similar mods, in 2nd and at 30mph, my wife says I hurt her neck when I floor it, and my good friend commented how snappy it felt when I accelerated out of a curve at those speeds. At the same time, you get used to power. Even FI. I love this car because with the right attitude if feels fast, without going ridiculous speeds... but if you want to be overwhelmed with power every time you even come close to touching the throttle, this is the wrong car...

[vtmike]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

I have similar mods, in 2nd and at 30mph, my wife says I hurt her neck when I floor it, and my good friend commented how snappy it felt when I accelerated out of a curve at those speeds. At the same time, you get used to power. Even FI. I love this car because with the right attitude if feels fast, without going ridiculous speeds... but if you want to be overwhelmed with power every time you even come close to touching the throttle, this is the wrong car...

I agree with this. Stock the car was a little under powered, torque dip definitely didn't help. After header, front pipe, intake, and tune I'm happy with the power.

Just discovered the other day I can completely spin my sticky summer tires rolling on the throttle through first at 50 deg ambient temperature. Couldn't do that before header. Caught me by surprise.

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[kev60625]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

I have similar mods, in 2nd and at 30mph, my wife says I hurt her neck when I floor it, and my good friend commented how snappy it felt when I accelerated out of a curve at those speeds. At the same time, you get used to power. Even FI. I love this car because with the right attitude if feels fast, without going ridiculous speeds... but if you want to be overwhelmed with power every time you even come close to touching the throttle, this is the wrong car...

It's definitely snappy. I didn't write what I wrote to complain about the power by no means, I knew what this car was before getting it. I was I simply stating my opinion on the car's straight away power, which doesn't matter to most people who bought this car. I was just saying how even with the torque dip gone, it might still feel slow to people.

When I first test drove my car before purchasing, the first thing I said was, that it didn't feel slow at all. I think I said it felt faster than my wrx low end, before 3k as well. I have definitely gotten used to it, but the low end torque is definitely awesome and good on this car.

[TrackRider54]

Originally Posted by Big D Design

I have driven many a 4 cylinder that just needs 3200rpm to even feel acceleration.

Yep. I've driven some four bangers that had to have the A/C turned off in order to have any power.

My daily driver is a Ford Escape 2.5L naturally aspirated. It's putting out 170hp and moving a small SUV. Talk about gutless. The 86 is a rocket ship compared to it.

My favorite cars I've ever owned were:

85 Mazda RX-7 - 100hp
08 Ford Contour SVT - 195hp
90 VW Corrado - 158hp
94 Mazda Miata - 131hp
99 Audi A4 - 174hp


Favorite cars I've driven:

75 Datsun 260z - 162hp
88 RX-7 Turbo II - 182hp
86 BMW 325 - 168hp

I have driven Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, Mercedes, HEMI Chargers, and a bunch of other high horsepower cars, but they never struck me as being really special. Granted, I've never driven a Ferrari, Porsche 911, McLaren, etc....and don't suspect I ever will.

What I find I enjoy in a car is simplicity, light weight, and good handling. The engine is there to get me up to speed....then my driving ability and the handling of the car keep me there. I don't find I need brakes much as I tend to drive at what I call "The Pace". It comes from my motorcycling background. Motorcycles are able to hit triple digit speeds faster than any car costing less than $100k can even dream of. Because of that, you have to discipline yourself to learn a road well enough that you can ride it without using the brakes. That means you rarely get above about 60-70mph on most roads. Roll off, make the turn, and roll back on a bit. That's fun in a car too.

I know there are acceleration junkies, and drag racers out there. I can appreciate that. The Hellcat I rode in was absolutely eyeball flattening. Lots of fun....but not for me. Just too dang big.

The beauty of the 86 is in the balance. Low(ish) power, skinny tires, good weight distribution, excellent chassis. You can have as much fun at 60mph as you would in a 911 at a 100mph. That little torque dip is just part of the character of the car.

My apologies for reviving a dead thread.

[Scrappydoo]

My torque dip seems to have disappeared or I can't notice it anymore.

I want to be speshul too, please help. There must be a retrofit?

[Scrappydoo]

Originally Posted by TrackRider54

Yep. I've driven some four bangers that had to have the A/C turned off in order to have any power.

My daily driver is a Ford Escape 2.5L naturally aspirated. It's putting out 170hp and moving a small SUV. Talk about gutless. The 86 is a rocket ship compared to it.

My favorite cars I've ever owned were:

85 Mazda RX-7 - 100hp
08 Ford Contour SVT - 195hp
90 VW Corrado - 158hp
94 Mazda Miata - 131hp
99 Audi A4 - 174hp


Favorite cars I've driven:

75 Datsun 260z - 162hp
88 RX-7 Turbo II - 182hp
86 BMW 325 - 168hp

I have driven Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros, Mercedes, HEMI Chargers, and a bunch of other high horsepower cars, but they never struck me as being really special. Granted, I've never driven a Ferrari, Porsche 911, McLaren, etc....and don't suspect I ever will.

What I find I enjoy in a car is simplicity, light weight, and good handling. The engine is there to get me up to speed....then my driving ability and the handling of the car keep me there. I don't find I need brakes much as I tend to drive at what I call "The Pace". It comes from my motorcycling background. Motorcycles are able to hit triple digit speeds faster than any car costing less than $100k can even dream of. Because of that, you have to discipline yourself to learn a road well enough that you can ride it without using the brakes. That means you rarely get above about 60-70mph on most roads. Roll off, make the turn, and roll back on a bit. That's fun in a car too.

I know there are acceleration junkies, and drag racers out there. I can appreciate that. The Hellcat I rode in was absolutely eyeball flattening. Lots of fun....but not for me. Just too dang big.

The beauty of the 86 is in the balance. Low(ish) power, skinny tires, good weight distribution, excellent chassis. You can have as much fun at 60mph as you would in a 911 at a 100mph. That little torque dip is just part of the character of the car.

My apologies for reviving a dead thread.

Isn't the hp rating on the RX-7 inconsistent as it's a rotary?

I know what you mean. I've had bikes on the road since my sixteenth birthday and I can't really say any car I've been in has felt fast.

Nor has any bike after a while. You get used to it. There just capable of the "oh feck" moment more. I've had times when I've forgotten to breath

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

Ooooh good point!

So, if say this is true, what is purpose for the dip on our twins? Btw, if anyone has a fa20 wrx turbo dyno chart (fa20 on wrx turbo has Subbies own DI+turbo) please post. Itd be nice to see if they have any type of dip. I know turbo might cancel it out, but still.

Purpose? None. Cause? Design compromises, probably money related.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

You can definitely feel it in the Twins, but not a huge deal. For daily driving, keep it below 3200 RPM. For spirited driving, keep it above 4500 RPM.

Many people seem to find that to be nearly impossible to comprehend.