Alignment FAQ Thread

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

The reason why i asked becus my car tend to oversteer =[
i dont know if i go too fast or i throttle too early....
I have -3 camber front/ -2.5 rear
0 toe front, 0.05 toe in rear
255 tires
22mm front sway bar/ stock rear

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

Yes, it oversteer between mid corner and exit,,if I throttle the car swing and traction control kick in. The only time I can really throttle is when the car most straight.

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

It is factory setting 35psi all around.
It is TEIN flex Z, indy 500 , 255/40/17 square.
When I turn the traction control will kick in, and it is hard to throttle unless the car almost full straight.

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

I know it is not kicking in from too much understeer becus i know my tail swing little bit and the TC try to save it.
Yes I do have 22mm front sway, and I thought it would fix it as well.
My ride height is Flex Z standard, 0.8 inches front, 0.7 inches rear.
Damper is from hard, front 5, rear 8.

Unless something is broken, this must be a tire grip issue. Sometimes even very good/grippy tires can "age out" in surprising ways. This happened with the Michelin Pilot SuperSports on my FD. Initially fine, but after ~2 years and maybe 10-12k miles (still more than half tread depth remaining) the car became well nigh undriveable. The rears would spin *ridiculously* easily and when they did the car went dead sideways (no residual sliding grip). It took me a while to convince myself because of how good those tires initially were and not being that old or anywhere near the treadwear indicators, but replacing the tires 100% fixed it.

[Icecreamtruk]

You know what, dont do anything else to your setup. Go to an empty space (track or parking lot, industrial zone, whatever, just something big and empty), disable all nanies (5sec push on track control should work, you could do the pedal dance if you know how to), and then do what you would do to take the turn where you think your rear is stepping out. If it starts stepping out, dont correct it, let it spin, all the way. Im still not convinced you are seeing oversteer. Dont do anything else you wouldnt be doing before, dont try to force the spin (which you can in any car, any setup), just do what you were doing, similar speeds if possible, make sure there is enough space, and just see what happends.

I honesly think spending more money before having a clear sight of what your problem is, its a waste of money and time. Also, disable those nannies already, you should not be driving on track with them, dont depend on them, it will not make you a better driver by any means.

[FR-Sky]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Unless something is broken, this must be a tire grip issue. Sometimes even very good/grippy tires can "age out" in surprising ways. This happened with the Michelin Pilot SuperSports on my FD. Initially fine, but after ~2 years and maybe 10-12k miles (still more than half tread depth remaining) the car became well nigh undriveable. The rears would spin *ridiculously* easily and when they did the car went dead sideways (no residual sliding grip). It took me a while to convince myself because of how good those tires initially were and not being that old or anywhere near the treadwear indicators, but replacing the tires 100% fixed it.

I bought my tires last Christmas...fairly new about 3-4k miles. 1 track day, and all daily and mountain. I am not gonna change until end of this Christmas or
3-5 tracks days cus budget wise lol =[
I am going to try re-71 or rs 3 next time. Thanks for sharing~

[FR-Sky]

Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk

You know what, dont do anything else to your setup. Go to an empty space (track or parking lot, industrial zone, whatever, just something big and empty), disable all nanies (5sec push on track control should work, you could do the pedal dance if you know how to), and then do what you would do to take the turn where you think your rear is stepping out. If it starts stepping out, dont correct it, let it spin, all the way. Im still not convinced you are seeing oversteer. Dont do anything else you wouldnt be doing before, dont try to force the spin (which you can in any car, any setup), just do what you were doing, similar speeds if possible, make sure there is enough space, and just see what happends.

I honesly think spending more money before having a clear sight of what your problem is, its a waste of money and time. Also, disable those nannies already, you should not be driving on track with them, dont depend on them, it will not make you a better driver by any means.

That would be good idea, but first i need to find a empty space...
I didn't fully turn off my TC when I am doing track cus I was afraid too.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

That would be good idea, but first i need to find a empty space...
I didn't fully turn off my TC when I am doing track cus I was afraid too.

AutoX test-n-tune. Or even just an AutoX event or ten. If you pay attention, it can teach you a ton about your car and your driving at the limit of the tires/suspension/surface.

[Twinz]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

That would be good idea, but first i need to find a empty space...
I didn't fully turn off my TC when I am doing track cus I was afraid too.

The nannies kick in to save you well before you need saving. I would not try to judge a car's balance with the nannies on. (And I would make sure I was testing in safe conditions when I turned them off and pushed the car)

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

I bought my tires last Christmas...fairly new about 3-4k miles. 1 track day, and all daily and mountain. I am not gonna change until end of this Christmas or
3-5 tracks days cus budget wise lol =[
I am going to try re-71 or rs 3 next time. Thanks for sharing~

RE71's are great but will be short-lived. My rears lasted <1000 miles and one track day on the FD! I've gotten tremendous (relatively) life out of RS3s on the S2k.

Weird. I daily an S2000 with similar power/weight and unless you are really screwing up, getting on the throttle exiting a corner results in understeer, not oversteer. Even with ludicrous power (~550hp) in the FD, up to incipient wheelspin getting on the throttle exiting a corner widens the line (aka understeer).

I still think for you to get power-on eversteer on corner exit, assuming reasonable inputs (i.e. easing on the throttle rather than just nailing it), unless you are making way more than stock horsepower, it must be the tires.

Are they the "Firehawk Indy 500" or the "Firehawk Wide Oval Indy 500"? I wonder how old they were when you bought them?

[FR-Sky]

Originally Posted by ZDan

RE71's are great but will be short-lived. My rears lasted <1000 miles and one track day on the FD! I've gotten tremendous (relatively) life out of RS3s on the S2k.

Weird. I daily an S2000 with similar power/weight and unless you are really screwing up, getting on the throttle exiting a corner results in understeer, not oversteer. Even with ludicrous power (~550hp) in the FD, up to incipient wheelspin getting on the throttle exiting a corner widens the line (aka understeer).

I still think for you to get power-on eversteer on corner exit, assuming reasonable inputs (i.e. easing on the throttle rather than just nailing it), unless you are making way more than stock horsepower, it must be the tires.

Are they the "Firehawk Indy 500" or the "Firehawk Wide Oval Indy 500"? I wonder how old they were when you bought them?

I believe i have the Firehawk indy 500, 255/40/17, and they produce at the same year 2016 i believe. My car is pretty stock, just header, intake and full exhaust system w/e85 custom tune produce about roughly 230HP.
All the parts are done in trusted professional shop, I mean if something weren't right or broken, they would tell me right lol?
I think my solution here is to find someone who are experience on track with the 86 to see if they can point out the problem.

Thanks!

[Clipdat]

Why was my toe so wonky? Last alignment was ~1k miles ago in December.

[ap5512]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Why was my toe so wonky? Last alignment was ~1k miles ago in December.

Sorry to side track...did you notice your feeling more "floaty" or easily turning after going zero toe? I have similar alignment specs as you when I first lowered my car but not it feels like the steering is too loose and less grippy. I have a doubt that it's because I requested to have the toe set to 0.

[Clipdat]

Unfortunately I've only driven on it a few miles around town since the alignment, but I have not noticed any abnormal steering feel compared to before. Everything feels "really good" right now, for lack of a better term.

I will have to log some more miles on it including some spirited driving and then I'd be happy to follow back up with you.

Originally Posted by ap5512

Sorry to side track...did you notice your feeling more "floaty" or easily turning after going zero toe? I have similar alignment specs as you when I first lowered my car but not it feels like the steering is too loose and less grippy. I have a doubt that it's because I requested to have the toe set to 0.

[JeremyR]

Originally Posted by ap5512

Sorry to side track...did you notice your feeling more "floaty" or easily turning after going zero toe? I have similar alignment specs as you when I first lowered my car but not it feels like the steering is too loose and less grippy. I have a doubt that it's because I requested to have the toe set to 0.

toe out or zero toe will make turn in easier, and feel a bit less stable at higher straight line speeds, but more stable in corners.

toe in gives more straight line stability.

[solidONE]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

Why was my toe so wonky? Last alignment was ~1k miles ago in December.

What are you using to get those caster numbers?

[Clipdat]

I have these: http://www.raceseng.com/cascam-caste...ubaru-brz-2013

Which, now that I read the page, adds one degree which gets you 7 degrees max it says.

So, I'm honestly not sure. I would have to send an email to the shop inquiring.

Originally Posted by solidONE

What are you using to get those caster numbers?