Automobile Magazine: 124 Abarth vs. Miata

[DarkSunrise]

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/20...x5-miata-club/

Thought this would be a hands-down win for the Abarth. Everyone complained about the lack of a turbocharged engine in the Miata, but now that it's here, there are issues with turbo lag, lack of top-end pull and responsiveness.

Wonder if it would have been the same story had Subaru thrown the WRX engine in the Twins.

I like the way the Abarth looks in that color combo (minus the black hood). In the pictures the extra length helps make the car look sleeker compared to the stubby Miata. I agree with Jurnecka that the ideal combo might be Fiat chassis + Miata engine.

[DAEMANO]

@DarkSunrise

I too prefer NA engines over FI if I can get it. Still though the power bug bites most.

For enthusiasts, stock for stock isn't really the story. Much like the Fiesta ST the point of getting the Fiat is how easily tunable the 1.4L MultiAir Turbo engine is. The engine takes well to additional boost due to its forged bottom end. Tuners have been able to both add power and change output characteristics nearly to their whim. ECU tune costs are $500-$600. More casual buyers aren't really going to care about how well the engine holds the top end or turbo lag, just that the car feels torquey, sounds, and looks great.

For buyers like us, there is this... (a comparison of 5 ECU tuning options available for the 500 Abarth)
http://www.fiat500abarth.us/2014/ecu...at-500-abarth/


Heck even Shiv's OFT has a tune.
http://www.openflashtablet.com/shop/oft-fiat-abarth/





For something a little more aggressive, there is the Stg 2 tune from Unichip. The top end holds much stronger here than Shiv's tune above.
http://www.unichip.us/vehicle/vehicl...500-Abarth-14T

[DarkSunrise]

@DAEMANO yeah tuned is a different story for sure. 225 compelling reasons to consider the Abarth. Although from the dyno charts you posted, looks like Unichip still dies above 5500 RPM and turbo lag would probably be inherent. I bet it'd be a fun car to drive on the street though.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

@DAEMANO yeah tuned is a different story for sure. 225 compelling reasons to consider the Abarth. Although from the dyno charts you posted, looks like Unichip still dies above 5500 RPM and turbo lag would probably be inherent. I bet it'd be a fun car to drive on the street though.

My feeling is that causal drivers will feel the stock torque curve of the Fiat and simply love it. Additionally enthusiasts will think getting 225 WHP for $500 is a no-brainer.

Looks like the OFT tune starts to fall off ath 5500 RPM, the Unichip at 6000, but if at that point the car is making 225 HP at the wheels, who cares if the redline is actually ~500 RPM higher.

In the end, I'm just very happy FCA decided to take a shot at fixing some of the things Mazda thought the Miata didn't need. Kind of makes me wonder what they would do with the 86

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

My feeling is that causal drivers will feel the stock torque curve of the Fiat and simply love it. Additionally enthusiasts will think getting 225 WHP for $500 is a no-brainer.

Looks like the OFT tune starts to fall off ath 5500 RPM, the Unichip at 6000, but if at that point the car is making 225 HP at the wheels, who cares if the redline is actually ~500 RPM higher.

In the end, I'm just very happy FCA decided to take a shot at fixing some of the things Mazda thought the Miata didn't need. Kind of makes me wonder what they would do with the 86

Haha yeah I wouldn't want them to touch the sheetmetal or suspension, but curious what direction they'd have taken the engine. The more I think about it, I wonder if a supercharger would have been perfect for a higher HP version of this car. Wouldn't change the character of the car much, but would give more midrange/top end power with OEM reliability.

Probably not as appealing to casual buyers who want low end torque, but for those who actually bought the car it'd offer more of what they like.

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/20...x5-miata-club/

Thought this would be a hands-down win for the Abarth. Everyone complained about the lack of a turbocharged engine in the Miata, but now that it's here, there are issues with turbo lag, lack of top-end pull and responsiveness.

Wonder if it would have been the same story had Subaru thrown the WRX engine in the Twins.

I like the way the Abarth looks in that color combo (minus the black hood). In the pictures the extra length helps make the car look sleeker compared to the stubby Miata. I agree with Jurnecka that the ideal combo might be Fiat chassis + Miata engine.

And I am wondering if you actually know what engines are in these cars?

Mazda: 2.0L @155hp
Fiat: 1.4L @164hp

These are two completely different engines. Different displacements with the smaller one turbocharged to get about (just a bit more) peak hp than the larger displacement engine.

This would be in no way comparable to Subaru throwing the WRX engine into the BRZ.

The WRX engine is the exact same 2.0L engine in the BRZ but with a turbocharger added and a huge bump in torque and HP.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

And I am wondering if you actually know what engines are in these cars?

Mazda: 2.0L @155hp
Fiat: 1.4L @164hp

These are two completely different engines. Different displacements with the smaller one turbocharged to get about (just a bit more) peak hp than the larger displacement engine.

This would be in no way comparable to Subaru throwing the WRX engine into the BRZ.

The WRX engine is the exact same 2.0L engine in the BRZ but with a turbocharger added and a huge bump in torque and HP.

Yes well aware. The point is what adding a turbo does to throttle response and shape of the torque curve on a small displacement engine.

[EAGLE5]

I'd like the 1.4T in an Exocet NB.

[Model Citizen]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

I'd like the 1.4T in an Exocet NB.

[guybo]

This comparo is a nice exercise in mental masturbation but you have to bear in mind how awful the Fiat reliability has been since it has been in the US. This is one of the most problematic unreliable POSes to hit american shores in a long while.

http://www.truedelta.com/Fiat-500/reliability-1014 This is Truedelta's data on the 500.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...able-cars.html

In 2015 the 500L has been top of the bottom in many lists of the worst.

The lists go on and on. The 500L has taken the top of the list for least reliable lately, but the 500 has been one of the worst cars (and Mazda in general has been among the best) since Italy took a dump on our shores and left this turd. So maybe first impressions are good and whatever of the latest from Fiat, maybe it's tunable, but it's a POS that will spend a LOT of time in the shop.

There's no comparo. The Fiat will be a problem from day one guaranteed. The Mazda is a known commodity and is by all accounts a great car. Coomon sense should tell anyone who looks further than the shiny sheet metal to AVOID a new Fiat.

[pinski]

Originally Posted by guybo

This comparo is a nice exercise in mental masturbation but you have to bear in mind how awful the Fiat reliability has been since it has been in the US. This is one of the most problematic unreliable POSes to hit american shores in a long while.

http://www.truedelta.com/Fiat-500/reliability-1014 This is Truedelta's data on the 500.
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...able-cars.html

In 2015 the 500L has been top of the bottom in many lists of the worst.

The lists go on and on. The 500L has taken the top of the list for least reliable lately, but the 500 has been one of the worst cars (and Mazda in general has been among the best) since Italy took a dump on our shores and left this turd. So maybe first impressions are good and whatever of the latest from Fiat, maybe it's tunable, but it's a POS that will spend a LOT of time in the shop.

There's no comparo. The Fiat will be a problem from day one guaranteed. The Mazda is a known commodity and is by all accounts a great car. Coomon sense should tell anyone who looks further than the shiny sheet metal to AVOID a new Fiat.

I might be mistaken, but the quality issues with new FIATs typically aren't related to the engines, right? The 124 Spider is going to be manufactured by Mazda in Japan, just with the FIAT engine inserted instead, coupled with the transmission from the old NC Miata. I don't see that it'll have very many quality issues, but time will tell.

[EAGLE5]

Fiat interiors and suspension suck. Never heard of engine issues.

[funwheeldrive]

The Abarth tested in this comparison has an MSRP of $37800. It only weighs 300lbs less than the 86, and has no option for a fixed coupe.

There are several other cars I would buy new before the Fiata and dozens of other cars I would rather have slightly used.

I guess I just wish this car was more raw from the factory. Shoot, they even said that the car doesn't sound as good as an Abarth 500

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by guybo

There's no comparo. The Fiat will be a problem from day one guaranteed. The Mazda is a known commodity and is by all accounts a great car. Coomon sense should tell anyone who looks further than the shiny sheet metal to AVOID a new Fiat.

So I guess the second someone swaps a badge, the car rattles and falls apart. The Fiat version of this car is for all intents and purposes a MX-5 with a mature critically acclaimed engine and handling tuned by FCA.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...-of-the-month/

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/06/30/f...wins-best-new/

http://www.gizmag.com/fiat-releases-...-design/11184/

So glad you internet guaranteed this. Really though, on this issue, you're living in the past.