Turbo FA in the new JDM Legacy, next WRX

[Calum]

[Unicorndog]

Originally Posted by NYC BRZ

I think the TRD supercharger, albeit sacreligious on a BRZ, is the way to go with this car.

More like sacrilicious

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by arghx7

It's likely this is a downsized and "downspeeded" engine. It probably hits peak torque ostensibly at 1700-2000rpm and falls on its face by 5000-5500. That's how these types of engines are. It may employ heavy use of external EGR, possibly cooled EGR like a diesel.

It's not going to use the D-4S system because there's really no point in doing so. The D-4S system, as currently implemented, is expensive and only makes sense for n/a engines. I suspect this new engine will have one solenoid-type multi-hole injector positioned between the intake valves.

The CVT is a wild card here. The calibration of the CVT and the electronic throttle will affect the driving feel greatly. If you've ever driven a Juke with CVT (1.6 direct injected turbo), they technically heat peak torque at very low rpm but you can't feel it due to the CVT calibration.

So maybe this is besides the point, but with a CVT I think low end torque matters less since the computer can start increasing the engine speed when you hit the gas right? So does it look like as manufacturers use more and more CVTs, they'll start moving the torque up in the rev range to avoid pumping losses?

Also what makes D4-S more worth it for NA engines? Is it that with forced induction you can afford a high tumble ratio port and not lose high end power?

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Negative Charlie.

Hold your horses there, ever seen arghx7's other posts?

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by arghx7

It's likely this is a downsized and "downspeeded" engine. It probably hits peak torque ostensibly at 1700-2000rpm and falls on its face by 5000-5500. That's how these types of engines are. It may employ heavy use of external EGR, possibly cooled EGR like a diesel.

It's not going to use the D-4S system because there's really no point in doing so. The D-4S system, as currently implemented, is expensive and only makes sense for n/a engines. I suspect this new engine will have one solenoid-type multi-hole injector positioned between the intake valves.

The CVT is a wild card here. The calibration of the CVT and the electronic throttle will affect the driving feel greatly. If you've ever driven a Juke with CVT (1.6 direct injected turbo), they technically heat peak torque at very low rpm but you can't feel it due to the CVT calibration.

400 Nm @ 2000 rpm in the .pdf

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by SkullWorks

Negative Charlie.

DI and FI are highly compatible, "as currently implemented" doesn't mean a whole lot, the hardware is there...tune it for turbo...control strategy changes for everything lets not make it out like different shape injectors are needed for turbo, the hardware can go unchanged (except potentially flow rate)

Charge cooling is one of the largest benefits of DI systems and they are all but lost on a N/A motor....FI loves DI

Re-read his post. No D4-S. Single injector between the intake valves. Not up the intake tract. He is talking about conventional DI rather than the port/direct hybrid.

[GenkiElite]

Originally Posted by Chenslee

Mash, wait, BOOST, ditch. I'm holding out for a supercharger.

It's amazing people still think this or havn't been in a vehicle with a properly sized turbo.

[Guff]

Originally Posted by GenkiElite

It's amazing people still think this or havn't been in a vehicle with a properly sized turbo.

Amen! My Supra's 64mm boosts hard and early!

[coyote]

That's the engine that should have gone into the BRZ.

[Sasquachulator]

Thats quite low revving.....

[Snoopyalien24]

Toyota is going to release their cars non-FI for a while till they feel like the pressure for FI is too great, or when they see lots of people going for the new WRX/STI or swapping engines, then they'll do it. Then, Subi follows because of contracts and inputs it in the BRZ.

[Matador]

Whats the CR on this engine?

[OrbitalEllipses]

Some relevant links courtesy of the NASIOC thread that predates any news reports on this side of the globe.

FHI Press Release

Originally Posted by FHI press release

• 20% better MPG than current 2.5L turbo.
• AWD system is VTD!! (First time VTD is paired with CVT.)
• Substantial handling improvements.
• First application of turbocharging on the new square architectured, direct injection engine platform.
• First sighting of the new high-torque CVT transmission that has been rumoured for so long
• Lineartronic with 8 electronically preset shift points

All in all, very fucking impressive. Maybe I shouldn't get the BRZ after all and wait it out for a new WRX...or a turbo BRZ with this engine. We should start seeing this (or a very similar) engine in more cars and even possibly stateside within 2 years, IMO.

Subaru Patent Application

Originally Posted by patent abstract

This breather apparatus has a rotation separator that is fastened to a camshaft, and that rotation separator has a base plate section and a plurality of protruding plates that extend from the base plate section. Moreover, a separator housing is provided in the cylinder head, and comprises an air intake on one end, and an exhaust outlet on the other end. Furthermore, a reed valve that opens and closes by the change in pressure inside a cam chamber is provided in the air intake. Blowby gas that is guided to the cam chamber hits against the protruding plates when passing in the radial direction of the rotation separator, and oil mist is captured by those protruding plates. Continuing, the blowby gas is guided from the cam chamber into the separator housing via the reed valve. When passing through the reed valve, the flow rate of the blowby gas changes, so oil mist is effectively captured by the inner wall surface of the separator housing.

A while ago, it was theorized on NASIOC that DI could be done without port injectors while still preventing carbon buildup on the valves through the use of a properly designed air/oil separator and valve timing. Voila, a Subaru patent for what sounds like an air/oil separator!

[Spaceywilly]

Originally Posted by coyote

That's the engine that should have gone into the BRZ.

6000 RPM redline? No thank you. Hopefully they'll fix that before they put it in the WRX.

[serialk11r]

I have a very hard time trying to figure out why in the world they want to make 300hp by using so much boost + a low rpm.

That torque curve is like a copy of the BMW N55, except the N55 has a fancy valvetrain and 50% more displacement, and is thus likely to be producing power far more efficiently. By having so much specific torque so early, the pumping losses through the turbine must be insane. The Evo engine also hits 400Nm with 2L, but they're allowing it at a higher engine speed and not having to limit boost as much with the wastegate, if I understand correctly how boost is controlled.