Cannot Duplicate

[phobos512]

Man, I hate those words.

As engineer, I seriously doubt that fourth gear is meant to sound and feel the way it does as compared to all the other gears, regardless of what it says in the notes on my receipt about the vehicle operating as designed.

Oh well, there's a record now that I have a concern so as it continues to get worse I have evidence to back myself up. And continuing to get worse is what the grinding is really good at doing.

[HiredGun]

Unfortunately they often try to use the "unable to duplicate concern" method to avoid lemon law claims. Most states have a 3 visit rule, 3 visits in which a problem can not be rectified gives you the right to return the vehicle within a specified time period. A visit in which the concern can't be duplicated does not count as one of those.

Keep pressing the matter, find a way to duplicate it consistently.

[ZZT86]

Cannot Duplicate = dealer talk for we can't be stuffed looking & paying for your concern . . . . . possibly under orders from HO :/

[vroom4]

even the new ones are notchy, so its really quite possible they cant notice it like you do.

[ZionsWrath]

haha I think the only gear that isn't notchy for me is 4th. None of my gears "grind" but sometimes the feel through the gates makes me cringe.

What's funny is I never notice it on track, maybe I'm just focusing on other things.

[Reaper]

Go back. We need more people to make a big deal about this so it becomes a recall. GO BACK!

[phobos512]

They said they drove it multiple times and never saw it, total of 5.3 miles per the trip meter. Did the grind as soon as I shifted into 4th the first time leaving the dealership...I well be back as they offered to have a tech ride with me.

[Poodles]

I'm convinced that the people complaining of the shifter being notchy either have crap transmissions or drove FWD cars with cable driven shifters that had no mechanical feel what-so-ever...

[phobos512]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I'm convinced that the people complaining of the shifter being notchy either have crap transmissions or drove FWD cars with cable driven shifters that had no mechanical feel what-so-ever...

I had a front wheel drive car once and that was 11 years ago. Also, the FR-S is the first manual trans car I've driven, let alone owned. I've driven another FR-S and a WRX STI since having the FR-S. Neither grind in 4th like my car. Also, my car didn't start out this way - it's become progressively worse over the 5,200 mi I've had the car.

Also, it is 4th and only 4th that makes a noise in my car. Up from 3rd and sometimes down from 5th.

So I guess it must be the transmission.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by phobos512

I had a front wheel drive car once and that was 11 years ago. Also, the FR-S is the first manual trans car I've driven, let alone owned. I've driven another FR-S and a WRX STI since having the FR-S. Neither grind in 4th like my car. Also, my car didn't start out this way - it's become progressively worse over the 5,200 mi I've had the car.

Also, it is 4th and only 4th that makes a noise in my car. Up from 3rd and sometimes down from 5th.

So I guess it must be the transmission.

Grind =/= notchy


Grind can only be three things (in no particular order):
- Bad driving
- Clutch not fully disengaging
- Bad syncros


Notchy is simply the feel of a transmission linkage. Some transmissions have a lot separating you from that feeling, while others don't (gated shifters are notorious for having no separation)

[tyrantcf]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

haha I think the only gear that isn't notchy for me is 4th. None of my gears "grind" but sometimes the feel through the gates makes me cringe.

What's funny is I never notice it on track, maybe I'm just focusing on other things.

Exactly how I would describe mine. At higher rpm the "cringe" feeling seems to be gone or at least more subdued.

[phobos512]

Originally Posted by Poodles

Grind =/= notchy

I understand that - I was just posting up more details on my experience.

Originally Posted by Poodles

Grind =/= notchy

Grind can only be three things (in no particular order):
- Bad driving
- Clutch not fully disengaging
- Bad syncros

One thing I have done, and done repeatedly, is to eliminate my driving from the equation. Thinking that potentially my right hand was getting ahead of my left foot when this was all starting to become more repeatable, I conducted a test wherein, at decent speed (such that RPMs would be in the range where grinding is very likely) I held the clutch in completely, and then shifted from 3rd to 4th. And it ground every time. It doesn't do this in any. other. gear. I know 1/2/3 have more synchros than 4/5/6 which is why I have tried this in every gear and it only does it in 4th. I would think this would eliminate the potential for the clutch dragging as well.

It only happens at high RPM but it happens whether or not I'm driving aggressively. I gave all this detail to the dealer but I don't know what detail they gave to the tech. Looking at the service receipt I received upon picking the car up, it just says, customer reports grind in 4th gear; tech drove car and could not duplicate, vehicle operating as designed. I know they only drove it 5.3 miles and if what the girl at the counter told me is true they drove it at least three times to accumulate that distance, which again means that the transmission never reached true operating temperature, and it only grind when....it has been driving for more than about 10 minutes i.e. upon reaching operating temperature (trans, not engine oil). Again, they had all this info but I have way of knowing they did this.

I'm an electronics and systems engineer by education and trade - I know how to go about things very methodically, and while this is my first manual (car, as I have ridden motorcycles for 10 years) it's far from being my first vehicle, or the first vehicle I've modified. I guarantee that if the tech tests it appropriately, they'd have the same result, because I have, time and time and time again.

Originally Posted by Poodles

Notchy is simply the feel of a transmission linkage. Some transmissions have a lot separating you from that feeling, while others don't (gated shifters are notorious for having no separation)

You're mixing notchiness and vagueness here - which aren't the same thing.

[Poodles]

Originally Posted by phobos512

One thing I have done, and done repeatedly, is to eliminate my driving from the equation. Thinking that potentially my right hand was getting ahead of my left foot when this was all starting to become more repeatable, I conducted a test wherein, at decent speed (such that RPMs would be in the range where grinding is very likely) I held the clutch in completely, and then shifted from 3rd to 4th. And it ground every time. It doesn't do this in any. other. gear. I know 1/2/3 have more synchros than 4/5/6 which is why I have tried this in every gear and it only does it in 4th. I would think this would eliminate the potential for the clutch dragging as well.

It only happens at high RPM but it happens whether or not I'm driving aggressively. I gave all this detail to the dealer but I don't know what detail they gave to the tech. Looking at the service receipt I received upon picking the car up, it just says, customer reports grind in 4th gear; tech drove car and could not duplicate, vehicle operating as designed. I know they only drove it 5.3 miles and if what the girl at the counter told me is true they drove it at least three times to accumulate that distance, which again means that the transmission never reached true operating temperature, and it only grind when....it has been driving for more than about 10 minutes i.e. upon reaching operating temperature (trans, not engine oil). Again, they had all this info but I have way of knowing they did this.

I'm an electronics and systems engineer by education and trade - I know how to go about things very methodically, and while this is my first manual (car, as I have ridden motorcycles for 10 years) it's far from being my first vehicle, or the first vehicle I've modified. I guarantee that if the tech tests it appropriately, they'd have the same result, because I have, time and time and time again.

Not blaming you, just listing in general what the causes would be (and exactly what the dealer is going to look at as well).


Get the tech to go on a ride with you while the car is hot and replicate the issue. Then let him drive it right after if needed.

Originally Posted by phobos512

You're mixing notchiness and vagueness here - which aren't the same thing.

Negative. True notchyness (NOT related to grinding) is how solidly linked the shifter is to the workings of the transmission. Most cars run rubber bushings to remove the feeling of the detents and other misc. parts moving around. It's a NVH thing and it seems they went for the slightly more connected approach on this car (which I enjoy since I'm used to shifters like this).