Tracking with Forced Induction

[Fett4Real]

(sarcastic voice) But but turbos are more efficient.....

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Fett4Real

(sarcastic voice) But but turbos are more efficient.....

And even worse.. "it's free horsepower"

[SirBrass]

Folks that day such stuff don't understand that heat is a sign of inefficiency. A perfectly efficient turbo's turbine housing wouldn't heat up as all the hot gasses would have all their energy converted to kinetic energy to move the turbine wheel.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

[HRTROB]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

It's called a search feature.

On phone I am. Therefore, if mistakes I make, Frank Oz blame you should.

Edit (now that I'm on a desktop instead of on Tapatalk's limited platform): I apologize for the above. I finally found the chart, but it took a) knowing it definitely existed, and b) searching for the "thanked" posts of the tuner (b/c "posts by user" maxed out before the posting date of this post). So, it would have been incredibly difficult to find. It was effectively buried in the forum.

The 200 whp on E85 you're referring to was done by Shiv on a dynojet (iirc. may have been a mustang), and it was 207 rwhp. Here is the post with 200 whp on a mustang dyno on 91 octane pump gas in AZ.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=1549

Nice numbers. Any chance we can see the baseline run of the same car on the same dyno?

Also, a Mustang can be calibrated to read the same as a Dynojet. There are even some Mustangs that read higher. That's why it's important to compare delta on the same dyno.

http://www.pencilgeek.org/2009/09/ex...l#Mustang_Dyno

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomete...yno-jet-2.html

[Deep Six]

Originally Posted by SirBrass

It's not an unsafe amount of timing, but it was pushing it. The owner of the car is a cone dodger more than a track junkie, so it wouldn't be subjected to long term high rpm conditions like on a track, and the owner is willing to eventually blow up his motor and then build a block.

But, the tuning has gotten better since this, so it's not so risky. I'm having my tuner still be reasonably conservative, and he's confident I'll score between 190-200 whp on the mustang dyno. Considering all the testing he's done in the months in between on various 86's here in AZ, he's been figuring out quite a bit and making good power on these cars on pump gas without getting unsafe.

Then again, most of us are street driving these cars, not setting them up for hard track useage.

The point is, it's very possible to get 200 whp on 91 pump gas in NA. Add FI, dial in a bit more conservative timing for safety (on the FI tune), and you're easily getting LOTS more power available safely for track if you're able to keep the heat down.

I agree with you 100% that it is possible but I have reservations about sustainability. Conversations about dyno results are difficult due to inconsistencies from one machine/operator to another. But assuming "typical" dyno calibration where most cars are 190's on 93 and ~200 on E85, then any tune that yields 200 on 91 would be crazy agressive probably through timing and AFR. The best tuners cover all the bases possible to safeguard the motor but they can't change the laws of physics regarding volumetric efficiency. Without a change in displacement or compression there is a finite amount of power available and octane is your best friend if you want all of it.

This thread was about FI in track conditions and this conversation is relevent beacause a header/E85 tune is a viable alternative for sustained track use with an appreciable lift in power. Add in a decent cooling system and your likely to maintain the power as well by keeping the ECU happy. In my case I will continue running this way until I meet some personal goals in NA form and then comes the JR SC I'll be calling you Dave!

[Reaper]

That pressure plot shows a high pressure area on the bottom of windshield.inljne with the hood not the plastic cowl tucked under the hood. That is a low pressure area.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[glorydays]

Originally Posted by Reaper

That pressure plot shows a high pressure area on the bottom of windshield.inljne with the hood not the plastic cowl tucked under the hood. That is a low pressure area.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

that plot has confused me for months now...

[glamcem]

I would definitely stay away from E85 stuff for track use for obvious reasons (one more thing that can go wrong in fuel system, availability, sustainability ..etc) but that's just me

[King Tut]

Originally Posted by icemang17

the least important thing a "track car" needs is HP....most any modern car has plenty.... The most cost effective way to drop lap times is improve the driver

The LEAST cost effective way to drop lap times is to buy more hp...which unforunately is usually the 1st thing drivers do

If people really want a cost effective way to drop lap times they should go out and buy a SpecE30 and go racing. No better way to go quicker than in a roll caged race car that you can afford to throw away.

[Sterz]

Hey @CSG Mike, I will be attending the upcoming 86 Cup at Streets of Willow CCW. I would definitely like you to take some logs from my car. I don't understand how heating issues can be so inconsistant. I have a Full Blown Stage 1 Base Kit, Full Blown Radiator, FBM radiator shroud, the two 12" spal fans, and the FBM Oil Cooler. I have done multiple practice drift days, and a track day with absolutely zero overheating issues. When I do drift days I run a 15 psi SD tune making 370whp on a Mustang Dyno. I did my track day on a 9 psi tune. Obviously I can log on my own but I just want you to see the live data yourself. I am definitely not saying that turbo kits dont have heat issues, because I have seen first hand that they do, even cars with similar setups than mine. I am just wondering if there is something that is causing my car to eliminate heat better than others. And I just want you to drive my car because im sure you would scare the crap out of me

[cdrazic93]

Whatever became of removing the fog light bezels for increased bumper airflow?

[OjiGeorge]

Originally Posted by cdrazic93

Whatever became of removing the fog light bezels for increased bumper airflow?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63231

Not quite as much as the entire bezel. But you still retain signal lights.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Sterz

Hey @CSG Mike, I will be attending the upcoming 86 Cup at Streets of Willow CCW. I would definitely like you to take some logs from my car. I don't understand how heating issues can be so inconsistant. I have a Full Blown Stage 1 Base Kit, Full Blown Radiator, FBM radiator shroud, the two 12" spal fans, and the FBM Oil Cooler. I have done multiple practice drift days, and a track day with absolutely zero overheating issues. When I do drift days I run a 15 psi SD tune making 370whp on a Mustang Dyno. I did my track day on a 9 psi tune. Obviously I can log on my own but I just want you to see the live data yourself. I am definitely not saying that turbo kits dont have heat issues, because I have seen first hand that they do, even cars with similar setups than mine. I am just wondering if there is something that is causing my car to eliminate heat better than others. And I just want you to drive my car because im sure you would scare the crap out of me

CCW isn't the best for logging, due to consecutive decreasing radius turns, but we'll at least see where the equilibrium is.

I can bring melted fans for you to see in person; it's not like we're making up these issues.

That's a lot of power; do you have upgraded axles?

[hmong337]

Anybody try a rear mounted radiator?