The BRZ STI has no balls for a reason

[armythug]

Originally Posted by ashtray

I could see a BRZ STi version with say 250hp, 210ft lbs - it wouldn't step on big brother's 305+hp shoes, but would be a healthy dose over the base model engine.

Think Cayman vs 911.

This is what I'm hoping for

[old greg]

Originally Posted by aliphian

Then why even pursue an STI version of the BRZ?

My guess is it's because Toyota wants a lightweight "TRD" version. I'll bet several nickels that the STI and TRD variants will have the exact same upgrades.

[PAImportTuner]

Originally Posted by aliphian

It is also AWD vs RWD and sedan vs coupe.

This.

[Leeky]

There is nothing really wrong with two models of similar spec and overlapping sales.

Cast your minds back to 1994. We have the Twin Turbo Supra and the Celica GT4. About 1second between them 0-60 and officially only 25bhp between them (JDM GT4 255Bbhp VS JDM Supra 280bhp).

This didnt harm sales and both cars did pretty well.

I guess it came down to taste and what you were going to use the car for.

Same will happen if they did a turbo awd brz. If you want a coupe you'll go brz and if you need to take the family around and do the shopping you'll buy the Impreza.

Think of it as a BMW M3 Coupe and a BMW M3 Saloon/Estate.

Im sure the only reason there are STI branded bits is to appeal to the aftermarket in the same way Toyota is doing with TRD/Modellista aftermarket parts.

[Gardus@Supersprint]

I don't see why Subaru wouldn't want to have both cars with the same engine available.
The VAG group doesn't seem to be harm by all the cars with the same drivetrain! (Audi S3, Golf R, Scirocco R, TT-S, Leon Cupra R...)
When all the major brands try to cover every niche of the market and even create new ones, why Subaru/Toyota wouldn't want to do the same.
I've never understood why they never made a new model of the 2 doors coupè Impreza, since 22B.

If I were them I would offer the BRZ both in RWD standard form, in RWD STI form (300ish bhp) and even 4WD if the drivetrain can be fitted!
Also, I'd make a diesel version of them, to steal sales in the EU from Audi which is the only brand that has 4wd sports cars on sale (Audi S5, RS5 and TT) and seem to be doing pretty well...

[Sip]

Given Subaru has announced that the WRX will separate from the Impreza and that Subaru has this lightweight small sport chassis, I cannot see a world where the WRX and STi are not built off of the BRZ chassis.

The WRX has been divorced from the Impreza because the WRX version was requiring increased impreza engineering driving up cost on the base model, while requirements of the base were a detriment to the performance of the WRX/STi.

Having this new sport only chasis (BRZ) allows the Impreza to lower it's entry price to better compete in the market while allowing the WRX/STi to increase its performance.

[PAImportTuner]

Leeky, Gardus and Sip,

I love how each one of you said things differently in a way that shows your common sense on the matter.

[tripjammer]

Originally Posted by Leeky

There is nothing really wrong with two models of similar spec and overlapping sales.

Cast your minds back to 1994. We have the Twin Turbo Supra and the Celica GT4. About 1second between them 0-60 and officially only 25bhp between them (JDM GT4 255Bbhp VS JDM Supra 280bhp).

This didnt harm sales and both cars did pretty well.

I guess it came down to taste and what you were going to use the car for.

Same will happen if they did a turbo awd brz. If you want a coupe you'll go brz and if you need to take the family around and do the shopping you'll buy the Impreza.

Think of it as a BMW M3 Coupe and a BMW M3 Saloon/Estate.

Im sure the only reason there are STI branded bits is to appeal to the aftermarket in the same way Toyota is doing with TRD/Modellista aftermarket parts.

Exactly this is the coupe version of STI but RWD...it works and Subaru knows it and is going for it. Get ready.

Some people don't like Sedans and AWD...Some like Coupes and RWD.

But just think if this baby had AWD...and 305 hp and weighed less than 3000 pounds...it would be a poor mans Nissan GTR.

[Dave-ROR]

Or would cost 45k and just be a "smaller gtr".

[70NYD]

Exchange rate is not the only thing influencing the price of cars here.

[Supradude]

Originally Posted by armythug

This is what I'm hoping for

Actually Subaru will turbocharge the WRX that come with the new Boxer FA20 2.0L engine from the BRZ,FT-86,FR-S

There is non-official announcement from subaru developer that the BRZ-STI will come with the WRX engine (270HP) .

This new engine will made 70 more HP instead of 200, it's from a low output turbo and i like that.

I will buy the BRZ-STI only if it come with a turbo, i can get more for the same price with competitor product. (S2000,350Z, actual WRX , IS250 and of course the new mustang 5.0 that deliver 412HP stock for 35K.

35k is my estimated price of the Turbo BRZ (If it exist one day).

[Hanzo]

BRZ and WRX STI are very different target market groups. People who buys STI wants AWD with lots of power and 4 doors. BRZ does none of that.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by armythug

With forced induction from the factory, this car would be a threat to WRX STI pricing. If this car had the same power as a WRX STI from the factory, people would second guess buying the flagship WRX STI. I think that Subaru is just trying to keep this car at the lowest price point possible and they’re staying away from WRX STI power numbers. So with the BRZ STI, Subaru will give us all the upgrades they can and then just leave it to us to do the engine swaps or whatever we want to do to achieve more power. And here in Australia, the WRX STI is sold as high as $68,000-74,000.00….. So it’s in our best interest (In Australia) that the BRZ STI does not come standard with a turbo.
I just wish that Subaru would sell the BRZ STI with a low output turbo setup. And price the BRZ STI in between the WRX and the WRX STI.

I hate this whole "take sales away from X" arguement.

Fact is I will NOT buy a WRX STI. I used to want one, and almost bought one, until I drove it. It's not the kind of car I want. If the BRZ STI was the type of car I want (and who knows if it will be) I'd buy it at whatever dollar amount I considered reasonable, even if that's more than a WRX STI.

These two cars cater to different markets. There is some overlap, but for many of us on here, if we wanted a WRX STI we'd have one already.

[AZP Installs]

The next gen of Impreza STi in my opinion will have significantly more power. That would allow a 300hp version of the BRZ to easily slide into the lineup. My guess is you will see the wrx and brz sti share a powerplant and the Wrx STi will get a bigger engine and power output.

-mike


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