Direct Injector Failure Poll

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by Rampage

He is also running e85 which may fix both the detonation and heat problems.

Yes some days e85 some days pump but pump is on lower boost settings

[lexusb3]

Originally Posted by lexusb3

Thanks and I'm using 10w-40 full syn

Also I haven't tracked it so no need to
Hold It in the powerband that long yet on the street but I then
To do alot alot of WOT and bounce at the 8,000 redline

[whitefrs]

ID is making DI for the corvette.

[SmsAlSuwaidi]

Originally Posted by whitefrs

ID is making DI for the corvette.

if only....

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by regal

Until then I will be keeping her under 5k rpm. Anyone who intends to keep their car for more than 30k miles should do the same.

Would you explain this, please?

I would like my BRZ to last beyond 60k miles without problems.

Thanks, Regal.

[regal]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Would you explain this, please?

I would like my BRZ to last beyond 60k miles without problems.

Thanks, Regal.

Sounds like folks can start working with their dealers now. I had no luck back when I posted this. But dealers are reportedly starting to work with owners of 2012 build owners, finally

Tell your dealer you want the ZA1JA01C calibration because you may go to Mexico where there is no speed limit. Don't drive over ~5.2k rpm in 3rd until then (in legal/warranty speak "don't drive over the speed limit".)

[thill]

Originally Posted by Porsche

Would you explain this, please?

I would like my BRZ to last beyond 60k miles without problems.

Thanks, Regal.

Your car may already have ZA1JA01C calibration installed. The dealer can verify, and if you are not at the calibration version for your software, have them update it.

If you plan on tracking the car a lot, I would follow Robispec's advice as well.

[Wepeel]

According to track junkie, his BRZ with a Feb 2013 manufacture date as the updated ZA1JA01C calibration.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=360

The updated calibration has also been being released around the world, the guys that got it in SA have claimed that it seems to improve power and pull out of the torque dip is a little sooner:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...99#post1090499

[Opie]

Originally Posted by regal

Subaru has a terrible reputation in dealing with these sorts of issues that will only affect the majority of owners after 60k.

Disagree

Originally Posted by regal

No different than the 15 years of denial on EJ headgaskets.

Are you referring to the head gaskets that they redesigned and then extended the warranty on 14 years ago to cover against external oil leakage for 105,000 miles instead of 60,000.

Originally Posted by regal

Until then I will be keeping her under 5k rpm. Anyone who intends to keep their car for more than 30k miles should do the same.

17,000 miles of driving it as it is meant to be driven so far, no issues. I'd more into actually driving my car than sitting on the internet psycho-babbling about issues.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by regal

Don't drive over ~5.2k rpm in 3rd until then (in legal/warranty speak "don't drive over the speed limit".)

Why 5200 rpm? Specifically, why not? What would happen and why would it happen? (Ignore the speed limit issue for this discussion. I'm interested in the machinery here, not the law. )

I'm trying to understand the "mechanics" of why these seals are failing and what I can do as a driver to avoid these problems until Subaru fixes the issues.

Clearly, there IS a problem. What's not clear to me is how relevant this problem is to me. And can I modify my driving to avoid the problem while awaiting a fix?

I thought the problem was generated with WOT--ABRUPT CLOSE--ABRUPT WOT when shifting to 3rd gear and above. (Redline upshift 1->2 drops the rpms below 5200 "danger" point, so it's not applicable, for those who wondered.)

If one avoids that "technique," would it still not be safe, then? You're advising to never drive it above 5200 rpm.

I currently have my tach warning LED and beeper set for shifting at 6000 rpm. That way in all gears, for all shifts, when I tip-in the throttle after changing up, the rpms are below 5200. I also roll into the throttle in the next gear, rather than slamming it wide open abruptly. I have no idea whether this helps mitigate the detonation problems. I'm hoping this helps, but… I have no data logging device, and my ears cannot hear anything above the "roar," so I've no idea whether it's pinging/detonating.

My understanding is that there's no reason to avoid accelerating beyond 5200, just do not employ a FAST/ABRUPT shift at 5200+ rpm.

I think…

Have I misunderstood?

Furthermore, I'm wondering if the entire problem can be avoided with a modified slower shifting technique?

I'd be interested in everyone's thoughts about the step-by-step shifting procedure that would avoid the tip-in detonation. In other words, do we need to take more than 0.6 seconds when re-applying throttle FOLLOWING the upshift? Just take +0.7 seconds for the total shift? Where exactly does this 0.6 seconds come into play? My guess is it's at tip-in following the shift. I don't know…

Obviously, this slower shifting technique will drop the stoplight drag racers yet further behind that soccer mom's minivan, much to their dismay.

There's also the matter of throttle tip-in issues at ANY time above 5200 rpm, which is what I suspect you're referring to.

My driving technique rarely calls for abrupt throttle closure followed by abrupt WOT (wide open throttle). I prefer smoother throttle inputs.

Would it not be safe to run along at 5200+ rpm in 3rd gear, say, playing within the rev band of 5200-7400 rpm ... so long as one avoided those abrupt ON/OFF throttle transitions?

Maybe someone capable of logging detonation events could experiment with this and report back.

You seem to be saying that one can NEVER safely drive above 5200 rpm. Why not?

I'm not challenging you, Regal, I'm just trying to understand.

Autocross competitors looking for thousandths of a second may need to be more abrupt. But, their run is around one minute or less, so I'm thinking they're not going to build sufficient heat to threaten to melt their DI seals.

But again, what do I know…

Must we really observe a 5200 rpm limit to be safe?

I'm just trying to understand what I can do when driving my car to avoid the DI problems, not to mention catastrophic engine failure.



*******************





Here's a footnote that some of you may find interesting. On a particular deserted stretch of open road where I feel I can safely "let it run," I occasionally turn onto this stretch and run it flat out in each gear seeking the maximum top speed possible before I need to shut off for upcoming curves. In my S2000 I turn onto this straight in 2nd gear and zoom off; I've seen a max of 120 mph in the S2000. (My wife and I call it the "Mulsanne Straight.") I have an AP2 and take it to the redline of 8000 rpm in each gear.

In the BRZ recently, I turned onto our Mulsanne Straight in 2nd gear and zoomed off, observing a "redline" of 6000 rpm. When I shut off at the same point as always, I was at 114 mph. Not too bad against my S2000, especially considering the artificial redline of a mere 6000 rpm.

Is the BRZ fast? Naahh, but it's pretty darn quick all the same in the real world.

I find the BRZ easier to drive fast than my S2000. (Although, it's feeling "floaty" at 114 mph, which is not confidence-inspiring. I've read that it generates lift at speed.)

[regal]

Porsche, good question. Maybe you live in a flat straight road terrain where you can somehow drive in the power band without lifting on/off the throttle ? I know I can't push thru these hills and twisties above 5200 rpm without fairly aggressively moving the throttle keeping her in the power band.

[Mikem53]

Originally Posted by Porsche

You seem to be saying that one can NEVER safely drive above 5200 rpm. Why not?

I'm not challenging you, Regal, I'm just trying to understand.

You are over thinking this and asking someone who has a pessimistic view of the car and the OEM who built it..
If the problem was as widespread as some think, then it would already have been dealt with by the OEM. There are only a handful of people who actually experienced a problem. Some who were concerned have even pulled their DI injectors and they were fine. There obviously is an issue.. And the OEM has provided a code fix on later production cars.. They don't seem to feel a need to immediately recall the existing cars that have a back level ECM calibration level.
The problem seems to be apparent only in extreme use cases such as heavy track use.. And even then , its rare at best.. You should enjoy your car, drive it as intended.. I bet there will be a silent fix available soon to where the dealers will update the ECM for the pre Feb 13 builds.

[thill]

And there is the whole warranty thing. Yes, at least one person has been denied their warranty for tracking their car, but if your seals go bad and your engine seizes you have 5yr and 60K miles of warranty if your car is affected.

We know that not all cars are affected, so telling everyone to shift under 5200rpm is just bad advice.

Drive the car like you would normally drive it. If you track the car a lot and have not had the latest calibration file installed, work with your dealer or Toyota or Subaru corporate and express your concerns.

[AyJay]

Originally Posted by Mikem53

You are over thinking this and asking someone who has a pessimistic view of the car and the OEM who built it..
If the problem was as widespread as some think, then it would already have been dealt with by the OEM. There are only a handful of people who actually experienced a problem. Some who were concerned have even pulled their DI injectors and they were fine. There obviously is an issue.. And the OEM has provided a code fix on later production cars.. They don't seem to feel a need to immediately recall the existing cars that have a back level ECM calibration level.
The problem seems to be apparent only in extreme use cases such as heavy track use.. And even then , its rare at best.. You should enjoy your car, drive it as intended.. I bet there will be a silent fix available soon to where the dealers will update the ECM for the pre Feb 13 builds.

Not good enough. I choose to demand a proactive solution to a documented problem. I don't want the BS headache and hassle of losing a day of seat time for a paid event and/or having to tow my car home because the snap/crackle/pop start happening and my CEL comes on. I will be highly pissed if this happens knowing that it could have easily been prevented.

BTW... i have my 01/13 build date at the dealership right now asking for software update "ZA1JA01C" during my free 7500 mi service. I'll post what i find out.