AVO turbo kit for BRZ - initial build thread

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Sportsguy83

Oh yeah, I did not read the mathematical portion of your post and you are correct. It does not add up.

The only thing I can say is that it has been said since day one that Dyno chart is on Japan, and the Dyno chart to go by in the USA adds up and makes sense, the one that was done in Oregon for 230 HP and 198 TQ.

Yep that one makes sense. It's this new one that's a lie, so why post it? Was it to purposely mislead people or an honest mistake?

Power wise this is about ideal for a multiuse vehicle and the torque curve looks great, so why lie?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

Yeah i guess data logging 1500mile road trips through every type of weather and below sealevel to 6000ft isnt enough. Read the first post, this kit has more r&d than any other kit in my opinion

Then why lie about the number?

I am interested in turboing my car eventually, but it looks like many here bought the bad graph without questioning it, so what else isn't completely accurate?

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Then why lie about the number?

I am interested in turboing my car eventually, but it looks like many here bought the bad graph without questioning it, so what else isn't completely accurate?

You bring up good points and thanks for being on top of it. Most probably the original graph in Japan does not add up either.

@AVOturboworld have some explaining to do. I'm also interested in knowing what happens in those JDM graphs...

[deucethemoose]

Originally Posted by ngabdala

This kit just hasn't been through legit testing . Don't get me wrong I want this kit. There's more to a kit than dyno charts.

Where's the application on a track or even on the street? The videos are vague and I'd hardly call a drive to SEMA and a drifting clip a real test.

1200 mile drive to SEMA =/= street? (technically 2400 miles, as he had to come home afterwards...)
An entire day beating the shit out of it on a track by multiple people and recorded for your viewing pleasure =/= track?


What exactly are you looking for? Lets not beat around the bush here. If you were to post a specific question or request I am sure you will get the answer you're looking for from Paul. He has been nothing but forthcoming and aboveboard here.

[Tansey86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

Then why lie about the number?

I am interested in turboing my car eventually, but it looks like many here bought the bad graph without questioning it, so what else isn't completely accurate?

The graph and numbers are completely accurate, just the way this dyno labels things says flywheel instead of rwhp, bring it to a dynojet and it will make the same power.

Do you not believe crawfords numbers either? You think two reputable companies would fudge numbers just to get sales?

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

The graph and numbers are completely accurate, just the way this dyno labels things says flywheel instead of rwhp, bring it to a dynojet and it will make the same power.

Do you not believe crawfords numbers either? You think two reputable companies would fudge numbers just to get sales?

Again, DO THE MATH. Seriously did you read my post which had the math in it? I'm not trying to be an ass, but if you use the math you will see that it's not accurate.

I haven't checked Crawfords actually, but I will just for shits and giggles. AVO USA's numbers are accurate as I've stated open, at least they work with the mathmatical relationship between HP and TQ.

I only brought this up because I don't want members misled, nothing against AVO and I'm sure AVO USA can determine just how bogus the numbers are too by doing the math. I like their kit actually but I have to admit I get a lot more suspicious when I catch a vendor posting bogus graphs, see the issue with another vendor on here that went on for awhile.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

The graph and numbers are completely accurate, just the way this dyno labels things says flywheel instead of rwhp, bring it to a dynojet and it will make the same power.

Do you not believe crawfords numbers either? You think two reputable companies would fudge numbers just to get sales?

I was also arguing with him, but he is correct. If we call the numbers WHP and WTQ they do not add up mathematically.

Math never lies

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

The graph and numbers are completely accurate, just the way this dyno labels things says flywheel instead of rwhp, bring it to a dynojet and it will make the same power.

Do you not believe crawfords numbers either? You think two reputable companies would fudge numbers just to get sales?

Just checked a crawford graph, the numbers add up, unlike the JDM AVO one.

[Tansey86]

Well lets get a system we can all agree on! Haha

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Tansey86

Well lets get a system we can all agree on! Haha

We have one. It's math.

The graph made sense until you guys pointed out that was wheel torque

[Tansey86]

Originally Posted by Dave-ROR

We have one. It's math.

The graph made sense until you guys pointed out that was wheel torque

Yeah, you are right. Math is the root of pretty much everything. I was under the impression AVO's and Crawfords " misleading " dynos were the same and I recognize that.

That being said I apologize and would really like to see this car on a dyno with a chart that we are all more familiar with.

280hp or not that sound

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by buditjoenawan

I hope AVO chimes in; but from what I can tell from the chart, the torque is plotted as flywheel BUT the horsepower is plotted as wheel.

Just looking at stock curves:
Torque shows a peak of roughly 160ft-lb
Horsepower shows a peak of 165hp

More math:
At 5000RPM, chart shows roughly 185whp, but at that RPM, torque shows roughly 210w-lb-ft. But calculating for torque based on 185 @ 5000rpm gets us:
Torque = 185*5252 / 5000 which gives us roughly 194.

It also doesn't help that the scale for the two isn't identical. Tuning shops should really adopt some kind of standard way to show these graphs....

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

I know, it's confusing - wait a few days, I'll have the USDM figures on the turbo kit stage 1. That'll have base run vs. turbo run on same dyno/setup.

To clarify, the figures on the avo brz are in whp, but I'm waiting to do the dyno here for figures that are relevant to the US Market (and most other international markets).

(YEAH, I'm bored at work...) This same issue came up when AVO posted the first JDM graph....

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Looooong day on the road, but about halfway to Subiefest and 86fest.

Do actually have some updates... First day of tuning had it's issues, of course, but we did reach 240whp/222ft/lbs of torque with just 4psi of boost. 240whp was reached at 6800rpm, and peak torque was reached about 3000rpm. For comparison, we started at about 160whp/140ft/lbs, so in a general sense, we already reached our first goal (80whp gain).

It's by no means final figures, as this is by no means the end of tuning. Just getting a feel for the engine and setup right now, then we'll start ramping things up a bit. By no means is 4psi the limits of the turbo or engine, we are just cautious about this and going over everything carefully.

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Going back on the road. Saw the dyno pic last night, and my apologies, have no way here of uploading them. Some further tuning on the standard map sensor and going to 5psi saw about the same torque, though coming in a touch earlier, and power increased to 248-249whp at 7000rpm. The hp curve looks like, uh, well, it's not a curve. I think somebody laid down a ruler on the dyno screen. Torque curve has a sharp climb from low revs to 3k, then plateau's for a while. A long while.

From 1500 revs onwards, there is a good 20 ft/lbs more torque than stock, that turbo must really be coming in early. I want this on the AVO USA FR-S right now!

And this is where we got the idea of everything at the wheels...

And reading this, MAYBE we all jumped to conclusions because AVO never said the TQ was at the wheels, only WHP..... and they did say the USA numbers would be accurate and they were...

[buditjoenawan]

Hey look! My name is brought up!

It's the same issue as before. AVO posted an AVO Japan chart that is mind-bogglingly wrong. After some back and forth, AVO USA deleted that image and posted AVO USA's dyno numbers which had Zero issues. Great! We all move on.

Then AVO USA posted yet another AVO Japan chart that is mind-bogglingly wrong in the same way. I know AVO USA knows that the chart from Japan is incorrect at best, misleading at worst. I said it before and I'll say it again: the AVO kit looks great (incomplete in my opinion, BOV cannot be optional: not to be a complete kit), but attractively priced under the competition and makes power in-line with all other turbo kits.

AVO Japan's kit is highly enviable for its torque curve. They did not need to inflate their torque numbers for everybody to see that the flat torque curve is something AVO, and ONLY AVO, has thus far achieved.

Anyone that questions my credibility and/or integrity can freely PM me. I promise I will reply as soon as I can.

budi