Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[Urmyson]

Originally Posted by fenton

Funny you should mention that. Rob has let me share a little secret / experiment.

This system effectively doubles the charge to the engine. That's a max of 8 psi with 4psi of NON PARASITIC boost. 4 psi at redline will be well over 250rwhp.

This system could be limited with the drag reduction sensors to keep the charge as close to 5psi as possible by pulsing the motors very fast at low rpm and basically running them flat out at higher rpm. 8 psi is probably not be a good idea at 2000rpm! Haha

Keep in mind you would need twice the juice to run this however.... but it does show there is a upgrade path in the future!

There is also a couple other things we are testing out and more information will be shared after next weeks dyno. All I can tell you now is im excited!!

AND YES, it does fit



Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

Wouldn't it be easier to just put a larger motor on the ECS? It would use more juice but if your going to add more batteries why not.

[PhastekSport]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Ok, my engineering mind has a suggestion. Instead of putting them in series, which would seem to limit the the amount of boost the first snail will provide, why not port them into the intake in parallel? I'm envisioning a butterfly type setup (horizontally opposed), or a mirror setup (with motors on the outside). Only thing to figure out at that point is fit and how the air would be ported in there

Not sure this would work.

For batteries in series, voltage is raised in this circuit.

In parallel... Same voltage.

My guess is the parallel setup would take more room and be more complex in general.

The series setup should make it easier for the 2nd snail to compress more air since it is having air forced in already, no?

That's from an EE frame of mind. Which I only took one year of lol.

[xjohnx]

Originally Posted by chadstyle

Somebody give this man a prize!! The FIRST innovate owner that is actually happy with the SC!!! Lmao!!

make that two.

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Chris@Phastek

Not sure this would work.

For batteries in series, voltage is raised in this circuit.

In parallel... Same voltage.

My guess is the parallel setup would take more room and be more complex in general.

The series setup should make it easier for the 2nd snail to compress more air since it is having air forced in already, no?

That's from an EE frame of mind. Which I only took one year of lol.

Yes the second snail would compress the air from the first resulting in double the compression.

Rob has already bench tested it sucsesfully.

The draw to the batteries would be double as i mentioned, so you would need two battery banks to have the same duration of use avaialble.

This it kinda the "Hey you can do this if you want to and have the money" Double the parts, double the cost and you see why this wouldn't be for everyone!

[fenton]

Originally Posted by Urmyson

Wouldn't it be easier to just put a larger motor on the ECS? It would use more juice but if your going to add more batteries why not.

Yes and no. Larger motor means more Amps which means not only larger battery but a controller that can handle the amps.

Additionally any dramatic increase in motor(double) is going to require additional cooling and the list goes on.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by Chris@Phastek

Not sure this would work.

For batteries in series, voltage is raised in this circuit.

In parallel... Same voltage.

My guess is the parallel setup would take more room and be more complex in general.

The series setup should make it easier for the 2nd snail to compress more air since it is having air forced in already, no?

That's from an EE frame of mind. Which I only took one year of lol.

I wasnt referring to the electronics when I was saying "series" and "parallel," I should have been more clear, sorry. I was referring to air flow. You are correct on the electrical part, though (I almost minored in EE )

It would be interesting to rig up the "Snail Train" airflow and the "Mirror Snail" systems and see which one would produce more pressure. Now that I think about it, I think the Train would create more pressure, but the Mirror would create more flow.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I wasnt referring to the electronics when I was saying "series" and "parallel," I should have been more clear, sorry. I was referring to air flow. You are correct on the electrical part, though (I almost minored in EE )

It would be interesting to rig up the "Snail Train" airflow and the "Mirror Snail" systems and see which one would produce more pressure. Now that I think about it, I think the Train would create more pressure, but the Mirror would create more flow.

I believe you are right about the sequential vs parallel:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pu...ial-d_636.html

Wouldn't parallel make more sense as we're looking to keep boost low but maintain that boost at high rpm? i.e. double your CFM by using parallel units, and not worry about limiting boost by switching the motors?

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

I wasnt referring to the electronics when I was saying "series" and "parallel," I should have been more clear, sorry. I was referring to air flow. You are correct on the electrical part, though (I almost minored in EE )

It would be interesting to rig up the "Snail Train" airflow and the "Mirror Snail" systems and see which one would produce more pressure. Now that I think about it, I think the Train would create more pressure, but the Mirror would create more flow.

Snail train would create a hotter charger with less flow, since your still limited in flow thru just 1 snail, but in parallel your flow should increase but will still Peter out toward the end, just like a single. Your IATs would be lower then the snail train though.

[PhastekSport]

I understood you weren't referring to the electronics portion of it, but as far as I've seen, in previous electronic supercharger setups, they tend to go series vs parallel for a number of reasons.

I do like the commentary where people add to the discussion vs bashing. Keep it up.

EDIT: I remember in high school helping another vendor sell electronic superchargers. They claimed 1psi with a single and 1.7psi with two in series. I don't think they are limited by the amount they can flow. It's the amount they can compress without it becoming too difficult.

[Adeets]

Originally Posted by bfrank1972

I believe you are right about the sequential vs parallel:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pu...ial-d_636.html

Wouldn't parallel make more sense as we're looking to keep boost low but maintain that boost at high rpm? i.e. double your CFM by using parallel units, and not worry about limiting boost by switching the motors?

A twin charged system works because the turbo is free spinning and the supercharger is sized for cfm more then psi. Maybe try throwing a big ass echarger on the first stage and the smaller on the second, or smaller first stage with a trnsmission to allow it to freely over spin when the second stage kicks in (bigger echarger)

Note: I'm retarded twin chargers are in parallel. Super charger is by passed by a vane when it sense suction between the supercharger and turbo.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by fenton

Funny you should mention that. Rob has let me share a little secret / experiment.

This system effectively doubles the charge to the engine. That's a max of 8 psi with 4psi of NON PARASITIC boost. 4 psi at redline will be well over 250rwhp.

This system could be limited with the drag reduction sensors to keep the charge as close to 5psi as possible by pulsing the motors very fast at low rpm and basically running them flat out at higher rpm. 8 psi is probably not be a good idea at 2000rpm! Haha

Keep in mind you would need twice the juice to run this however.... but it does show there is a upgrade path in the future!

There is also a couple other things we are testing out and more information will be shared after next weeks dyno. All I can tell you now is im excited!!

AND YES, it does fit



Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4

THIS is what ive been thinking of ever since I thought about a multi turbo set up.

Series turbos like the big dog tractor pullers....

Awesome.

[Toma]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Ok, my engineering mind has a suggestion. Instead of putting them in series, which would seem to limit the the amount of boost the first snail will provide, why not port them into the intake in parallel? I'm envisioning a butterfly type setup (horizontally opposed), or a mirror setup (with motors on the outside). Only thing to figure out at that point is fit and how the air would be ported in there

Since each turbo is a compressor, you will get more boost in series.

Since its airflow AT pressure that we need...this is the logical arrangement.

Tractor pullers that run 200 psi boost will run 3 or 4 stages.

[sw20kosh]

Originally Posted by Adeets

A twin charged system works because the turbo is free spinning and the supercharger is sized for cfm more then psi. Maybe try throwing a big ass echarger on the first stage and the smaller on the second, or smaller first stage with a trnsmission to allow it to freely over spin when the second stage kicks in (bigger echarger)

Note: I'm retarded twin chargers are in parallel. Super charger is by passed by a vane when it sense suction between the supercharger and turbo.

I think you can have the supercharger and turbocharger in parallel or you can have them in series.

If you put them in series the turbo force feeds the supercharger (once it gets enough exhaust energy to flow more than the supercharger).

If you put them in parallel, there is usually a mechanism that switches between the two (ex. when the turbo sees enough exhaust energy, the supercharger is bypassed).

And here is how VW does it. This time the supercharger is feeding the turbo (in the low RPMS). This is a really cool video:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20qqavckWdw"]VW TSI twincharger - YouTube[/ame]

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by Toma

Since each turbo is a compressor, you will get more boost in series.

Since its airflow AT pressure that we need...this is the logical arrangement.

Tractor pullers that run 200 psi boost will run 3 or 4 stages.

Hmm can you explain further? My intuition tells me we'd need a parallel system - tractor pull guys are not flow limited and they're looking for max boost pressure. This ESC system for the 86 needs more flow, not max boost right? A single unit produces enough boost pressure at low RPM, but boost drops as the motor requires more CFM. I would think the parallel rig, compared to the sequential rig, would produce less boost at low rpm, but more at higher rpm (where we need it)? I'm not a mechanical engineer so please feel free to correct me