Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

While I wholeheartedly agree with this line of thought, I'm curious, has ANYONE actually stuck with the OEM tires long enough to wear out the tread? They seem to be made of stone and don't physically wear away, although they heat cycle out way beforehand.

I had 4 track days on my OEM tires before I blew a tire on a curb. Other than the outer edges being shredded, there was plenty of tread left. Then I mounted 2 of the tires back onto the rear of the car for a day on the skid pad. Even after a few hours spinning out and doing figure 8s on the skid pad, the tires STILL looked they had tons of life left.

Has anyone managed to cord the OEM tires??

I did not cord mine but did warrant them through Michelin because they wore out in 11k street miles. They wore faster on the insides by 3mm or so. Stock alignment.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

You should learn them so you know how to recover an unintentional rotation... just my $0.02

I did, with sticky tires.

The unintentional rotation was less severe than the slippery tires that caused me to drift not track.
I already knew how to recover from a skid (all snow country drivers do or don't survive) and drifting doesn't interest me, it wears out tires quickly and is a slow inefficient way around a track.



CERBERUS

[ZionsWrath]

Kind of random question. I am about to register for NASA HPDE @ VIR July 19 20

If I want to bring someone that wont be driving or riding along do I need a family/spouse membership? Or is a basic 1 year membership satisfactory?

[RFB]

Originally Posted by ddeflyer

And a beginner shouldn't be worrying about lap times; its a good way to end up going home in a flat bed truck.



And if someone doesn't know when they are approaching the limit, then what happens?
And when they don't know what to do because they are blasting at crazy speeds and sliding through a corner as they find out the limit then what?

I didn't say a beginner should be worrying about lap times. A beginner should be thoughtful, not worried, about tracking accurate apex lines SMOOTHLY.
Slippery tires interfered with that objective when I was a beginner.

With my sticky tires when I approached the limit all 4 tires squeeled. What happened ? The sound notified me of the limit, then I either slowed to regain more traction or pushed harder to learn that speed was scrubbed off.
There was no spin out off the track like with slippery tires.

As in my original post - FOR ME I learned faster with sticky tires.



CERBERUS

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Kind of random question. I am about to register for NASA HPDE @ VIR July 19 20

If I want to bring someone that wont be driving or riding along do I need a family/spouse membership? Or is a basic 1 year membership satisfactory?

No they don't need a membership. Before entering the track in the morning you will sign a waiver, and they will too. You might get a bracelet to signify signing the waiver. If you are bringing children then they must be signed for.

Only drivers need memberships to get on the track.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by RFB

I did, with sticky tires.

The unintentional rotation was less severe than the slippery tires that caused me to drift not track.
I already knew how to recover from a skid (all snow country drivers do or don't survive) and drifting doesn't interest me, it wears out tires quickly and is a slow inefficient way around a track.



CERBERUS

Sounds like the next step is for you to learn to drive while maintaining a good slip angle (on the oversteer side, not the understeer side), without actually countersteering. Essentially, throttle steering, which is, technically, a subset of drifting. This is a faster way to corner that most people never reach.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by orthojoe

While I wholeheartedly agree with this line of thought, I'm curious, has ANYONE actually stuck with the OEM tires long enough to wear out the tread? They seem to be made of stone and don't physically wear away, although they heat cycle out way beforehand.

I had 4 track days on my OEM tires before I blew a tire on a curb. Other than the outer edges being shredded, there was plenty of tread left. Then I mounted 2 of the tires back onto the rear of the car for a day on the skid pad. Even after a few hours spinning out and doing figure 8s on the skid pad, the tires STILL looked they had tons of life left.

Has anyone managed to cord the OEM tires??

I suppose we will... eventually...

[ZionsWrath]

Originally Posted by TrogDor the Burninator

No they don't need a membership. Before entering the track in the morning you will sign a waiver, and they will too. You might get a bracelet to signify signing the waiver. If you are bringing children then they must be signed for.

Only drivers need memberships to get on the track.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Thanks I just signed up,

[RFB]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Sounds like the next step is for you to learn to drive while maintaining a good slip angle (on the oversteer side, not the understeer side), without actually countersteering. Essentially, throttle steering, which is, technically, a subset of drifting. This is a faster way to corner that most people never reach.

Interesting. My FRS it is balanced and neutral through the corners, no tendency to under or oversteer.
Im tracking the Mosport Gran Prix track next week (long high speed straights and corners).
Any tips on how to better throttle steer ?



CERBERUS

[TrogDor the Burninator]

Originally Posted by ZionsWrath

Thanks I just signed up,

I've gone through HPDE 1 and 2 and am now onto 3.

It's an amazing experience. Ask your instructor everything that comes to mind, even if it is mundane or seems silly. Having an experienced driver in the car as a resource is the most valuable thing NASA HPDE offers.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by RFB

Interesting. My FRS it is balanced and neutral through the corners, no tendency to under or oversteer.
Im tracking the Mosport Gran Prix track next week (long high speed straights and corners).
Any tips on how to better throttle steer ?

Very basically, when going around a corner, if you roll in more throttle the car will go wider. If you roll off the throttle the car will tuck in tighter to the corner.

What Mike is specifically referring to is when you're at the limit of adhesion and the tires are considering stepping out on you. If you jump on the throttle, you break traction and go for a spin. If you let off the throttle, you regain traction but the car loses speed. If you're very delicate and smooth with the throttle, you can edge just past the limit and barely start to slip. Your tires still have enough traction to put power down, but they're also protesting loudly and have lost enough traction that the car has only just started to rotate. At this point you're steering with the throttle. A little more throttle, you lose a little more traction, the rear end steps out a little more, and you go wider. A little less throttle, the tires regain a little traction, the rear end comes back into line, weight transfers forward, and you tuck into the corner. At this point, steering input is almost less important than throttle input. Your steering wheel has set the line you want, and your throttle adjusts your position on that line.

You can feel this when you take long curving on-ramps, with larger throttle inputs. Let off the throttle, weight rolls forward, there's more weight on the front (turned) wheels, and you take the corner tighter. Roll on the throttle, and you'll swing out wider. It's an interesting thing to get the feel of.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

Very basically, when going around a corner, if you roll in more throttle the car will go wider. If you roll off the throttle the car will tuck in tighter to the corner.

What Mike is specifically referring to is when you're at the limit of adhesion and the tires are considering stepping out on you. If you jump on the throttle, you break traction and go for a spin. If you let off the throttle, you regain traction but the car loses speed. If you're very delicate and smooth with the throttle, you can edge just past the limit and barely start to slip. Your tires still have enough traction to put power down, but they're also protesting loudly and have lost enough traction that the car has only just started to rotate. At this point you're steering with the throttle. A little more throttle, you lose a little more traction, the rear end steps out a little more, and you go wider. A little less throttle, the tires regain a little traction, the rear end comes back into line, weight transfers forward, and you tuck into the corner. At this point, steering input is almost less important than throttle input. Your steering wheel has set the line you want, and your throttle adjusts your position on that line.

You can feel this when you take long curving on-ramps, with larger throttle inputs. Let off the throttle, weight rolls forward, there's more weight on the front (turned) wheels, and you take the corner tighter. Roll on the throttle, and you'll swing out wider. It's an interesting thing to get the feel of.

When I hit a corner harder my rear does not fish tail. All 4 tires screech and the whole car slides slightly outward off my intended apex line. Letting off on the throttle (if I haven't gone too far) gets me back.
Does that mean I am throttle steering ?



CERBERUS

[gramicci101]

That's understeer, you're probably going faster than your traction will allow you to turn in. Inertia's a bitch. Don't hit the corner harder, push harder through the corner. The rear end will want to come around.

Keep in mind that getting it wrong can result in spectacular events taking place. Don't attempt if you're penned in by walls unless you know you can get it right.

[RFB]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

That's understeer, you're probably going faster than your traction will allow you to turn in. Inertia's a bitch. Don't hit the corner harder, push harder through the corner. The rear end will want to come around.

Keep in mind that getting it wrong can result in spectacular events taking place. Don't attempt if you're penned in by walls unless you know you can get it right.

When I don't hit the corner harder and push harder through the corner the rear end does not oversteer.

I can tune the car for oversteer with tire pressure but I'm slower (always correcting for fish tail).

What would I do to be faster with oversteer ?

And no I don't experiment with close walls LOL !



CERBERUS