Need responses on help on making college decision ASAP!

[Bartley]

This will be TL;DR, but I would appreciate your time to read what I have written.

I was accepted to Fordham University for Chemistry, and I learned that the school has a 3-2 Engineering program where I will earn a bachelors in Chemistry in 3 years, and if my grades are superb enough and providing I do not drop from the program, I will be given admission to Columbia for engineering, where I will earn a bachelors in ChemE in 2 years. I have done some online research on many 3-2 Engineering programs and I have learned that less than 25% of the original people who entered the program actually go on to the "2". I have also learned that the 3-2 program has a very strict line of coursework and is not very flexible with many electives, including engineering electives.
On the other hand, I was also accepted to UC Irvine and Davis (less than a $1000 difference, location plays a major role between these two places) for a traditional 4-year ChemE undergrad major. I will be paying more, no doubt due to the fact that I am from NY, but I will begin the process of registering as a California resident as soon as possible so that I do not have to pay such a ridiculous tuition price after that, but the process is an extreme hassle. I would have to stay in California for 366 days (1 day of absence from the state, if the registrar finds out, is still subject to scrutiny and may disqualify me), which means I can't even go home during winter break or anything. I also must begin relinquishing all my ties to my current home here in NY. I would have to register a car in Cali, Cali driver's license, a permanent address in Cali, register to vote, blah blah blah.

In my opinion:
Fordham
- 3-2 Engineering at Fordham is extremely risky, if I am even given placement into "2".
- I do not have to go through the strenuous task of declaring residency in another state.
- If I am not given placement to "2", I would probably have to go to some sort of grad school since a bachelors in Chemistry doesn't mean much at all.
- Strict, packed coursework where I will be taking classes even in the summer to complete prerequisites.
- Fordham is much cheaper (around 14,000-15,000 difference from California) and is a 20 minute drive from my house.
-Financial aid and scholarships that I received from Fordham will not be carried over into Columbia.

UC Irvine/Davis
-I would be living on campus in UC.
-Much more expensive, however if I declare residency in California and the registrar approves, UCI/UCD becomes substantially cheaper than Fordham after my 1st year.
-Traditional 4-year ChemE undergrad leaves flexibility in what electives I would enjoy taking.
-Internship opportunities for the engineering industry (networking + internship experience and possible job out of college)

This might just answer my own question, but I would love to go to Cali. I went to visit schools during my spring break and loved it there. The weather in NY is freezing. May is nearly here and NY is still what I consider cold (40 degree weather during spring? Give me a break).

I would like to know what some of you think should be the proper course of action. What do you guys know about a 3-2 program vs a traditional 4-year?
I know national signing day is a mere 2 days away but I have been debating this in my mind for the past 2 months and have not been able to reach a decision.

[serialk11r]

Guaranteed admissions to Columbia? Sounds like you have the answer there. Totally different tier from Irvine/Davis, will help you in getting a job, and if the tuition is less then it makes sense.

[blackhawkdown]

Join the Army. 100% tuition paid with GI Bill. There is no better education then real life experience and leadership training. Not to mention the discipline you will have once you get out and the experience you will receive as a Soldier and leader. You will be so high speed; you will make you peers look like a herd of lost sheep.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

Join the Army. 100% tuition paid with GI Bill. There is no better education then real life experience and leadership training. Not to mention the discipline you will have once you get out and the experience you will receive as a Soldier and leader. You will be so high speed; you will make you peers look like a herd of lost sheep.

I agree...

I was an X-ray/CT tech in the military...got out and I am making good money (100k+)

I live in Washington State. A lot of my favorite baristas have 4 year degrees...one literally has a Chemistry Degree.

As far as your situation...getting a degree from Columbia...that is impressive though. You can parlay that into a Masters Program or an actual job.

In reality...a 4 year degree in Chemistry with no specialty...really may not help you get a job (sadly). Use that degree to leverage further opportunity...and you will be set (hopefully).

Forbes claims a Masters in Chemistry is the 6th worse Masters as far as employment and salary...
http://www.forbes.com/pictures/efkk4...obs-chemistry/

Get that degree if you LOVE Chemistry. Don't go after it because you think it will make you a lot of money.

Job Skills>College
At least in today's economy/business climate.

It very well can change in 5-10 years though (but I doubt it).

Many employers look at a college degree as proof that you spent money and had a lot of support from family (unless you punch your own ticket).

I said "Many Employers" not "All Employers".

I find it sad a lot of High School Senors listen to TEACHERS and Guidance counselors as far "what to do next".

That is like believing a car salesman when he says "This car is great...High Quality!"

Teachers and Car Salesmen...their careers depend on those fields (though many jobs are that way...I am just pointing out..get some non-biased advice before taking the plunge).

Other free advice...call a place that has a JOB that you would like to have. Ask them what the requirements are. Try to get those requirements. If you want to be in pharmaceutical research, they very well may require a Masters in Chemistry, or you may become surprised that they actually want you to be a Pharmacist instead.

Make your college, military experience, technical school...make those math the FUTURE you WANT. Check this before starting any of these.

I repeat what Blackhawkdown said...if you are unsure what you want to do...you do seem to know though...and you seem to be smart with a good head on your shoulders...but if you are unsure...the military is great and will set you up for the future.

If you have a 5 year plan...do that.

[fooddude]

I really don't know anything about majoring in chemistry and what the future is for it, from a bachelors or continuing further with a post grad deg. But, I can agree with the aforesaid posts that many things/degrees in this day and age needs to be specialized and more focused to be even relevant in the job market..either by more education, a more focused/specialized masters, internships, fellowships, work experience, etc etc. And I agree with what someone else said that a bachelors is too broad/vague/general to be really anything useful in attaining a desired job in your field that isn't going to be bs type of stuff like coffee delivery, filing, it and bottom of the barrell type of stuff. I agree that a bs/ba is basically just a piece of paper tha tells employers that you are formally educated and have the ability to learn. And I agree, yet again, that Columbia is in a whole different format/ballpark than uci etc. other than that, I really don't know much about other collegiate educational reputations and your major.

But, I can speak on other things that you may want to hear. Specifically, life experiences. Since you are from NYC, it defo couldn't hurt to move to a whole diff state and city to experience a different culture and to also live away from family/parents and old friends. This is a big part of learning and life. You will appreciate what you had at home and also appreciate new found life and freedom. You will grow and learn in ways you couldn't have ever imagined before - socially, become more confident and mature, gain more basic life skills (cooking, house upkeep, new bills, new friends, become more open minded and tolerant (though, NYers are already super tolerant), etc etc. They will be experiences that you will never have it any other way after you've done them. They will be experiences that you wouldn't trade anything for.

I actually don't mind the cold NYC weather. What I don't particularly like is the humid summers with hot nights that hardly get cooler at night ("heat island effect"). I notice in ny summers when it's 95deg in the day, it only cools down to like 85-90deg at night lol. In Cali, a 95deg day will cool down to a nice brisk 60deg by night. Not to mention Cali isn't swampy humid in the summer, almost zero mosquitos, etc. but it is much drier. I was raised in Cali..so I am def not used to the nasty ny summer weather.

If you're into cars and driving, Cali has Nyc beaten hands down. Year round nice weather, no snow/ice, no salt/rust, a lot of tracks and autox events.

If you're into partying and drinking, NYC has the upperhand. I could get mashed up and still make it home via subway and never need to worry about designated drivers or drinking and driving.

Food...honestly a tie. Every city arnd the world has everything and the same these days..give or take a few specialized and quintessential foods and of course one city makes it much better. NYC easily makes the best pizza, Jewish deli/pastrami, Jamaican and Latin West Indies... and Cali has real mexican, much better and much more asian food (Thai, japanese, Vietnamese, filipino, Cambodian, Korean, indonesian, etc). It comes down to ethnic population - Cali is more asian and mexican..and NYC is more black, Jewish and West Indian and Latin.

Mentality wise...also much different. I easily prefer NYC even though I'm from Cali ...hi still want to move back and I think I will sooner than later.

[Speed2th]

I would pick one school that you can earn better grad and better recommendation letters so that you can go to a decent grad school. undergrad school is not that important in my opinion. That is my route and now I am a dentist.

[Bartley]

I want to thank you guys for all of your inputs... I have chosen to go to Fordham, as I found out becoming a resident of California is near impossible. I don't know if only UC/California does this, but I think the criteria, such as becoming financially independent with proof that I can pay my own tuition, meals, etc. is a little ridiculous.
I may be looking to transfer to other schools within the state as I don't find the idea of cramming 4 years worth of courses into 3 years for 3-2 very appealing, and I'm already doing that in high school (graduating early).

Originally Posted by fooddude

Mentality wise...also much different. I easily prefer NYC even though I'm from Cali ...hi still want to move back and I think I will sooner than later.

I think this is kind of a phenomena among students living on the coasts; West Coast kids think the East Coast is all hip 'n' shit and vice versa...
But I seriously agree. The weather here in NY is horrible, too cold of a winter and too freaking hot and humid in the summer. At least in California the temperatures dwindle down to the 70's/60's at night and you can sleep comfortably in contrast to sweat. And I also think NYC is extremely overrated and lacking compared to San Francisco and Los Angeles, but that might be due to living here. San Francisco's $10/hour minimum wage is KILLER for any high school student and for some college kids.
I love California; hopefully, the internships and whatnot I have here have company locations there.

Originally Posted by Atropine

I agree...

If you have a 5 year plan...do that.

Originally Posted by blackhawkdown

Join the Army. 100% tuition paid with GI Bill. There is no better education then real life experience and leadership training.

I didn't have much interest in enlisting but I was really interested in the Naval Academy. I even attended the summer seminar, and was nearly finished completing my application (had my congressman's nomination as well) when my parents' iffiness made me so fed up I didn't continue with the application. That, and I was suspended for the first time in high school... I'd have all my records subpoena'd and stuff. However, the suspension was for a dumb reason and not going through with the application is one of my biggest regrets so far this year.

Originally Posted by serialk11r

Guaranteed admissions to Columbia? Sounds like you have the answer there. Totally different tier from Irvine/Davis, will help you in getting a job, and if the tuition is less then it makes sense.

The only problems I have now with here in New York are the locations of the internships and job demand. I presented one of the math teachers at my school, who went to Princeton, my exact predicament, and he said based upon my interests (automotive, environment, some other things), that I'd be better off in California since I'd be much closer to Asia and California's higher need for engineers since there's stricter emissions, better environmental regulation/protection, etc.

[vroom4]

California because its closer to asia...what?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Bartley

as I found out becoming a resident of California is near impossible.

That was my first impression upon reading your post, I was surprised at how easy you thought it would be, I remember it being a pain in the ass when I was looking at it out of curiosity. I thought you needed to live in the state for 3 years which means you'd get slammed on tuition for 3 years and one decently priced year.

UCD grad with a BS in Mech. Engineering, this comment made me laugh:

Originally Posted by Bartley

-Traditional 4-year ChemE undergrad leaves flexibility in what electives I would enjoy taking.

At UCD you'd get about 6-8 classes of freedom, they must all come from specific lists to fulfill specific requirements, pretty much all the Engineering degrees here require more units than the minimum for graduation (180 to graduate, my degree was 185 credits minimum, graduated with more) but with no unit cap you can certainly take extra classes for fun. But that's irrelevant now.

My only comment is that imo a dual degree is of limited usefulness if you decide to go straight to industry after a Bachelors, and I'd be concerned about the compressed time frame unless you'll be taking engineering courses at the first university in preparation. But like others said, Columbia is more well known than either of the UCs you got into. Best of luck, as much as I loved Davis if I was in your shoes I'd pick the in state option as well.

[tahdizzle]

Go to UC Irvine, drop out, become a barrista. Meet a hot, well off korean girl (there are plenty), and then mooch for the rest of your life.


Or go to that other place and be an engineer or whatever. Your choice.

[acg2010]

Originally Posted by Bartley

I want to thank you guys for all of your inputs... I have chosen to go to Fordham, as I found out becoming a resident of California is near impossible. I don't know if only UC/California does this, but I think the criteria, such as becoming financially independent with proof that I can pay my own tuition, meals, etc. is a little ridiculous.
I may be looking to transfer to other schools within the state as I don't find the idea of cramming 4 years worth of courses into 3 years for 3-2 very appealing, and I'm already doing that in high school (graduating early).

This is pretty standard for most state schools at the undergraduate level. They don't want you to become an in-state resident easily. It keeps the money flowing for them.

Its easier to become a resident as a graduate student, especially a PhD student because you're on your own, 50% employee etc.

[dem00n]

Don't think you'll get off so easy, life can catch up and you might fail a class or two, which can even set you back a semester or even two. A lot of students planning to get out of college as fast as they can, end up losing that battle. Take it slow. College is a learning experience, treat as such and you'll end up much more satisfied.

[garfull]

doesnt sound like money is too much of a concern for either as your are open to both so pick the school that will give you the best chance of landing the job you want after college. which college has the best connections with industry and which college would allow for better industry internships during your college career

[n2oinferno]

Originally Posted by dem00n

Don't think you'll get off so easy, life can catch up and you might fail a class or two, which can even set you back a semester or even two. A lot of students planning to get out of college as fast as they can, end up losing that battle. Take it slow. College is a learning experience, treat as such and you'll end up much more satisfied.

It absolutely is a learning experience. You're going to be overwhelmed with work, so you want to learn to do the least amount possible and still maintain a 4.0.