Aftermarket Parts & Factory Warranties

[FyeaFRS]

So I've been reading and seeing a lot of folks having warranty coverage issues with their dealers after installing aftermarket parts.

Dealers denying warranty claims because you've got a part installed that has nothing to do with your broken factory part.

We've all heard these horror stories about @$$ clown service advisors and managers telling folks to pay out of pocket for items that should be coverd under that car's factory warranty just because you have aftermarket/non-oem parts installed.

So what I'm doing is putting together, in 'business card' format, a small outline of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that can be handed out to people that have a current issue with a dealer or have had this sort of problem.

Essentially all it'll have on it is the name of the law, as stated above, and a brief paragraph that outlines the point of the law. I'd probably also include 2, maybe 3 web address to resources were you could find more information.

So the next time you'd go into your dealer to have them fix a legitimate problem with factory part 'A' and they tell you that aftermarket part 'X' voided your warranty, you can hand them this card and say you might want to look into that real quick before we take this any further...

I pulled this off the ftc site for starting point, but I'm looking for feedback on how to word the paragraph and what to include to be as concise as possible:

http://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...ne-maintenance
"The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

It just bums me out to read stories of this happening to people when it doesn't have to. It's not an attack on the dealers directly or anything like that, it's just that they sell and product that comes with a warranty and they are required by law to honor that warranty.

[zc06_kisstherain]

I threw out warranty as soon as i bought a car but this is great idea.

[leicaboss]

Great idea, reminds me of a gray card set that some street photographers I know use:
http://store.petapixel.com/products/...-Card-Set.html



So when you get bugged for taking a photo of someone you can show them these..

[tinma]

that apply for canada also?

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by FyeaFRS

So what I'm doing is putting together, in 'business card' format, a small outline of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that can be handed out to people that have a current issue with a dealer or have had this sort of problem.

While I love the concept of this, I fear it will do more harm than good.

What you are effectively doing is threatening the dealer's service department with the law. They are aware of the law, but the claim of warranty denial may be made with bad facts or just a case of bad judgment.

If you wanted to take a conflict negotiation view of this, the last thing you want to do is dangle the ultimate warranty law in the land in front of them. That's like saying you want to undo a bogus fix-it license plate ticket law with a case presented before the Supreme Court.

Escalate this slowly. I feel in these situations, a simple understanding and diffusing of why the claim was erroneously denied in the first place would solve 99% of the problems.

-alex

[mav1178]

My post can be furthered detailed on SEMA's SAN site:

http://www.bipac.net/page.asp?conten...enied&g=SEMAGA

Note that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is only referenced as a FINAL STEP. Not the first shot.

I know you don't want it to be an attack, but if I was a dealer and you came in with the M-M Act dangling in front of me for a mechanic's poor diagnosis, I'd just shut you out myself.

-alex

[zooki]

So, if you show them, and they still deny your warranty, then what? Sue? I figure that dealerships probably have deeper pockets than the average FR-S owners. Even though the law says it's up to them to prove the aftermarket parts caused the problem, it's up to you to hire a lawyer to force them to play by the rules....

[FyeaFRS]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how that claim process for a dealer and manufacturer works? Preferably from someone who works/worked at a dealer.

For instance, does the dealer get reimbursed for parts and labor from the manufacturer when a claim is made for something covered under warranty? I can't imagine a dealer would just lose out, especially on labor, for stuff like that.

Not just with Toyota/Subaru on the 86/ZN6 platform, but any make by any car manufacturer?

[FyeaFRS]

Originally Posted by mav1178

My post can be furthered detailed on SEMA's SAN site:

http://www.bipac.net/page.asp?conten...enied&g=SEMAGA

Note that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is only referenced as a FINAL STEP. Not the first shot.

I know you don't want it to be an attack, but if I was a dealer and you came in with the M-M Act dangling in front of me for a mechanic's poor diagnosis, I'd just shut you out myself.

-alex

Exactly, never meant to be an attack on that dealer/brand/etc. Well aware that a tactic such as that wouldn't get anybody anywhere right out of that gate.

I personally have had two separate issues, that now have tsb's out, denied because I have my windows tinted. Had I known that they would really need to prove to me that window tint caused my window motors/switches to fault (not the subfreezing temps/frost in doors) or to cause my weatherstripping on the door frame to roll out (had pics of it before tint was applied), I would have handled the situation differently. Instead I just took the service manager's word on the situation as final on the matter.

I was told the switches needed reprogrammed because the guy that did my tint disconnected my battery, which 1) He didn't disconnect my battery 2) Tint was in place for over a month and had windows up/down a bunch 3) He would now this how? So they charged me $50 to reprogram the switch and didn't even tell me how to fix it in the future (down/up all the way). As far as the weatherstripping, they stated it was catching on the tint and that if I wanted to get it covered under warranty I would have to have the tint removed on that windows and bring the car back. I then presented my pictures of the windows and strip before tint and the guy pretty much said tough shit there's tint on there now.

Now the weatherstripping I can understand if I didn't have any proof that it was doing it before hand, and the switches I feel like they just was the $50 and for me to have to come back and shell out for money every time it happened (which it has a few times since).

Which brings me back to my above question about dealers submitting claims. If I were to assume that someone knew nothing about that process, I could be lead to believe that it's some sort of hassle for them that they try to not deal with. For instance, how much/difficult/time would it be to replace the door weather stripping or say hey this is what you need to door when the windows freeze.

I doubt it's just me that feels weird taking my car back to the dealer for service after an experience like that.

:discuss:

[EL Shorty]

I dont work for a dealer, buts its the same as extended warranties in a sense. Dealer gets paid for parts and labor from manufacturer. But when it comes to labor they only pay the tech warranty time for the work witch usually is 40% less then customer pay pricing. Same goes for parts. They only pay msrp not customer pay witch is also inflated. But yes they loose a bit of money compared to if customer paid for work.

[EL Shorty]

Originally Posted by FyeaFRS

Exactly, never meant to be an attack on that dealer/brand/etc. Well aware that a tactic such as that wouldn't get anybody anywhere right out of that gate.

I personally have had two separate issues, that now have tsb's out, denied because I have my windows tinted. Had I known that they would really need to prove to me that window tint caused my window motors/switches to fault (not the subfreezing temps/frost in doors) or to cause my weatherstripping on the door frame to roll out (had pics of it before tint was applied), I would have handled the situation differently. Instead I just took the service manager's word on the situation as final on the matter.

I was told the switches needed reprogrammed because the guy that did my tint disconnected my battery, which 1) He didn't disconnect my battery 2) Tint was in place for over a month and had windows up/down a bunch 3) He would now this how? So they charged me $50 to reprogram the switch and didn't even tell me how to fix it in the future (down/up all the way). As far as the weatherstripping, they stated it was catching on the tint and that if I wanted to get it covered under warranty I would have to have the tint removed on that windows and bring the car back. I then presented my pictures of the windows and strip before tint and the guy pretty much said tough shit there's tint on there now.

Now the weatherstripping I can understand if I didn't have any proof that it was doing it before hand, and the switches I feel like they just was the $50 and for me to have to come back and shell out for money every time it happened (which it has a few times since).

Which brings me back to my above question about dealers submitting claims. If I were to assume that someone knew nothing about that process, I could be lead to believe that it's some sort of hassle for them that they try to not deal with. For instance, how much/difficult/time would it be to replace the door weather stripping or say hey this is what you need to door when the windows freeze.

I doubt it's just me that feels weird taking my car back to the dealer for service after an experience like that.

:discuss:

Well in those sort of situations you always have the choice of taking it to another Toyota dealer. Some service writers just dont want to be helpful. But if two different dealer tell you same thing than its tough...

[fz6r]

Originally Posted by FyeaFRS

Exactly, never meant to be an attack on that dealer/brand/etc. Well aware that a tactic such as that wouldn't get anybody anywhere right out of that gate.

I personally have had two separate issues, that now have tsb's out, denied because I have my windows tinted. Had I known that they would really need to prove to me that window tint caused my window motors/switches to fault (not the subfreezing temps/frost in doors) or to cause my weatherstripping on the door frame to roll out (had pics of it before tint was applied), I would have handled the situation differently. Instead I just took the service manager's word on the situation as final on the matter.

I was told the switches needed reprogrammed because the guy that did my tint disconnected my battery, which 1) He didn't disconnect my battery 2) Tint was in place for over a month and had windows up/down a bunch 3) He would now this how? So they charged me $50 to reprogram the switch and didn't even tell me how to fix it in the future (down/up all the way). As far as the weatherstripping, they stated it was catching on the tint and that if I wanted to get it covered under warranty I would have to have the tint removed on that windows and bring the car back. I then presented my pictures of the windows and strip before tint and the guy pretty much said tough shit there's tint on there now.

Now the weatherstripping I can understand if I didn't have any proof that it was doing it before hand, and the switches I feel like they just was the $50 and for me to have to come back and shell out for money every time it happened (which it has a few times since).

Which brings me back to my above question about dealers submitting claims. If I were to assume that someone knew nothing about that process, I could be lead to believe that it's some sort of hassle for them that they try to not deal with. For instance, how much/difficult/time would it be to replace the door weather stripping or say hey this is what you need to door when the windows freeze.

I doubt it's just me that feels weird taking my car back to the dealer for service after an experience like that.

:discuss:

Now that's just bullshxt.. I would have fought that one. So they are basically telling you that you aren't allowed to disconnect the battery... and that something as thin as tint could cause weatherstripping to get caught onto....

I'm not familiar with Toyota (Scion) or Subaru warranty, but with my VW, they only denied coverage for what was touched. Something as small as tint wasn't really an issue since some cars come from the dealer with tint

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by FyeaFRS

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how that claim process for a dealer and manufacturer works? Preferably from someone who works/worked at a dealer.

For instance, does the dealer get reimbursed for parts and labor from the manufacturer when a claim is made for something covered under warranty? I can't imagine a dealer would just lose out, especially on labor, for stuff like that.

Not just with Toyota/Subaru on the 86/ZN6 platform, but any make by any car manufacturer?

Reading the TSB would provide a guidance on what the "cost" is.

There is some internally agreed to compensation rate for labor. The repair will be listed as X amount of hours, and reimbursement would be at that rate. This is not unlike a body shop repair guide, which lists hours (generally) of repair for each area of the car, for every type of vehicle ever produced.

Any parts needed for repair would be the same procedure, you reference the warranty or TSB, and the cost of the parts is written off from manufacturer to dealer.

But here's where it gets tricky (and where your issue lies): it is up to the dealer to initially assess whether your claim can be covered under warranty or not. To have a legitimate claim denied can be as simple as a misunderstanding, or as bad as a dealer service advisor that is prejudiced against modified cars.

Honestly, from what you've posted, it seems like a case of poor judgment/training on the dealer's part with their service staff. You can attempt to work it out with the dealer, or you can go to another one. The dealer will only process it as a warranty when they can come to a reasonable conclusion that this can be paid for by the manufacturer. That's how it works.

And a lot of it is relations between the customer/dealer, the dealer/corporate regional rep, and the customer/corp... just how you manage that relationship vs how the other party manages it.

If someone gave me crap for tint, I'd just dangle my business elsewhere. In the end, a smart service department knows that they get paid on a warranty claim. To deny a warranty claim is to deny guaranteed income, something a good manager will never turn down.

-alex

[5AD86D]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Reading the TSB would provide a guidance on what the "cost" is.

There is some internally agreed to compensation rate for labor. The repair will be listed as X amount of hours, and reimbursement would be at that rate. This is not unlike a body shop repair guide, which lists hours (generally) of repair for each area of the car, for every type of vehicle ever produced.

Any parts needed for repair would be the same procedure, you reference the warranty or TSB, and the cost of the parts is written off from manufacturer to dealer.

But here's where it gets tricky (and where your issue lies): it is up to the dealer to initially assess whether your claim can be covered under warranty or not. To have a legitimate claim denied can be as simple as a misunderstanding, or as bad as a dealer service advisor that is prejudiced against modified cars.

Honestly, from what you've posted, it seems like a case of poor judgment/training on the dealer's part with their service staff. You can attempt to work it out with the dealer, or you can go to another one. The dealer will only process it as a warranty when they can come to a reasonable conclusion that this can be paid for by the manufacturer. That's how it works.

And a lot of it is relations between the customer/dealer, the dealer/corporate regional rep, and the customer/corp... just how you manage that relationship vs how the other party manages it.

If someone gave me crap for tint, I'd just dangle my business elsewhere. In the end, a smart service department knows that they get paid on a warranty claim. To deny a warranty claim is to deny guaranteed income, something a good manager will never turn down.

-alex

I gotta say as someone who works at the dealer in parts you did a pretty good job of explaining things mostly in the last 4 sentences (those are the definetly very accurate)... As i've said before on another post...the major problem with these things is the RELATIONS and KNOWLEDGE/EDUCATION on these issues that some of these dealers have. A new car is a new car to everyone even us. We just have more technical info on how to fix it because we made it. It does not mean however you will definetly find someone with experience of doing it (I'll be happy to elaborate more to anyone on this). I can tell you this FACT about the tint issue they are using to deny you though....When someone installs tint on our car either the battery DOES have to be switched off or the courtesy lamp switch inside the door removed (these are the easiest options for this) because the auto down feature in the window once the door opens interferes with the installer trying to measure and/or install the tint to the window. Not saying there is no other option but I have seen this job done at my dealer 3 times. TRUST me on that part. I can assure you thats where they make that part of the claim but even so they STILL should not use that as an excuse to deny you because this is an confirmed issue that replaces weatherstrip switches and other parts repairing everything. It really upsets me at times to hear guys having these issues with dealers because I can assure you while your car is under warranty I would take it NO PLACE ELSE. After warranty just depends on the variables/issues you need to correct. Feel free to write me with questions.