Fuel economy and electronic toy-86-throttle-controller what do you think?

[dssence]

Hi guys I was having some issues about high fuel usage with my car, well you may know my story, I got an average reading of about 18Litres per 100km. Now it's getting more steady and close up to 12km per 100km but its still too much. My car was bought a month ago , so I wanted to check there's nothing at fault.
Anyways I came across this device on a chinese site . Has any of you tried this , if it indeed has an economy mode maybe would be worth the try. Or it might conflict with the ECU bricking the car?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/toyot...621480868.html

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by dssence

Hi guys I was having some issues about high fuel usage with my car, well you may know my story, I got an average reading of about 18Litres per 100km. Now it's getting more steady and close up to 12km per 100km but its still too much. My car was bought a month ago , so I wanted to check there's nothing at fault.
Anyways I came across this device on a chinese site . Has any of you tried this , if it indeed has an economy mode maybe would be worth the try. Or it might conflict with the ECU bricking the car?

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/toyot...621480868.html

Well, dssence, if it's what I think it is (like a sprint booster) ...... you can do the same thing by pushing more or less on the gas pedal.

Some find it a fun device; I think it's a bunch of nonsense.

I doubt it's going to help out your poor gas mileage......


humfrz

[dssence]

Hi thanks for helping out, what about this guy thread ? Talks about a similar device Apex something.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6482

[strat61caster]

Fuel economy is HIGHLY dependent on your drive cycle, the onboard computer is not accurate in my experience (always optimistic which makes your situation worse) and depending on when it was last reset can give a crazy reading (i.e. reset, run it up to redline through all the gears on the way home reading will be worse than what you're seeing, or immediately jump on the free way and cruise control at 50mph and get twice the economy you're seeing). Cars are also usually less fuel efficient before break in is complete, add in that you're not supposed to keep it at a steady rpm and the economy WILL be shit the first 1,000 miles.

12L/100km is roughly 19.6 mpg, which I would consider normal for stop and go city/rush hour traffic driving. The US has the car rated for 22 mpg city, 30 mpg highway (7.8L/100km).

I personally don't see the point in the plug in for modifying the throttle signal and it seems super sketchy. Sure it can be done safely but I'd rather leave it up to the OEM and modify my driving style.

Edit: For instance here's my fuelly, you can SEE where I have tanks that are mostly freeway and the tanks where I commute to work, I stopped tracking it but my commute changed and I'm getting closer to 24 mpg on those tanks and with cruise control and patience I can get 33 mpg on the freeway trips.
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/stratcaster/frs

Edit 2:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/scion/fr-s
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/brz

Edit 3: Isn't this like the fifth time you've asked about your fuel economy?

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by dssence

Hi thanks for helping out, what about this guy thread ? Talks about a similar device Apex something.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6482

I would be very surprised if any of these devices offered improved fuel economy.

The one above appears to offer altered throttle response, which some drivers may welcome, but this is not something that improves fuel economy. If anything, these might result in slightly lower fuel economy.

[Porsche]

I see that you live in Argentina. Do you live at high altitude?

The rarefied air at altitude can yield lower fuel economy, I believe, but I could be mistaken.

[chrisl]

I wouldn't get something that remaps the throttle - you can get the same effect for free by simply changing your driving habits. That having been said, 12l/100k sounds really bad for this car (that's 19 us mpg). Are you driving it in the city all the time and being really aggressive with the throttle?

[chrisl]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I see that you live in Argentina. Do you live at high altitude?

The rarefied air at altitude can yield lower fuel economy, I believe, but I could be mistaken.

I haven't had that experience with my cars - if anything, my outback in particular seems to really like mountain driving, and I routinely get better gas mileage up in the mountains at high altitude than anywhere else.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I haven't had that experience with my cars - if anything, my outback in particular seems to really like mountain driving, and I routinely get better gas mileage up in the mountains at high altitude than anywhere else.

I was told years ago, when visiting people in Boulder, that the cars sold there were "tuned" expressly for high altitude. Our "flat-lander" new Datsun (it was a few years ago) was feeble up there.

I always wondered about the cars sold up there. Is there any truth to this, or is it something that is no longer applicable to modern computer controlled cars?

Turbos are good at altitude, of course.

[dssence]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Fuel economy is HIGHLY dependent on your drive cycle, the onboard computer is not accurate in my experience (always optimistic which makes your situation worse) and depending on when it was last reset can give a crazy reading (i.e. reset, run it up to redline through all the gears on the way home reading will be worse than what you're seeing, or immediately jump on the free way and cruise control at 50mph and get twice the economy you're seeing). Cars are also usually less fuel efficient before break in is complete, add in that you're not supposed to keep it at a steady rpm and the economy WILL be shit the first 1,000 miles.

12L/100km is roughly 19.6 mpg, which I would consider normal for stop and go city/rush hour traffic driving. The US has the car rated for 22 mpg city, 30 mpg highway (7.8L/100km).

I personally don't see the point in the plug in for modifying the throttle signal and it seems super sketchy. Sure it can be done safely but I'd rather leave it up to the OEM and modify my driving style.

Edit: For instance here's my fuelly, you can SEE where I have tanks that are mostly freeway and the tanks where I commute to work, I stopped tracking it but my commute changed and I'm getting closer to 24 mpg on those tanks and with cruise control and patience I can get 33 mpg on the freeway trips.
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/stratcaster/frs

Edit 2:
http://www.fuelly.com/car/scion/fr-s
http://www.fuelly.com/car/subaru/brz

Edit 3: Isn't this like the fifth time you've asked about your fuel economy?

heh correct , like about the fifth time. Today I went to my dealership to place the damn rubber grummets underneath the rear end. They didn't place them on the pree inspction. I also told them about the rear suspension struts tops which didn't have the rubber plug as well. They added some plugs with some silicone cause couldn't find ones which fitted. If that don't leave them sealed up I'll be buying them from toyota genuine parts online.

Now going back to the fuel economy thing, I told the guys what happened that when I took the car hof te dealer with the full tank they filled up , I ended up with the last quarter tank and have done 140km with the ecu showing an average of 18Litres per 100km Totally NOT aceptable
Last week I filled up the tank ( 2nd fill) V-power shell, with only the last 1/4 tank I filled up 32 litres (guessing the fuel needle it's not accurate cause every 1/4 tank should be 12.5 litres) .
Anyways i'm shifting gears shortly (sometimes I guide myself with G-on blinking arrow up) and damn I'm keeping rpms stable below 3k I thought it would be better to keep rpms constant to achieve better fuel economy. But you're saying :

Cars are also usually less fuel efficient before break in is complete, add in that you're not supposed to keep it at a steady rpm and the economy WILL be shit the first 1,000 miles.

AFAIK new cars are factory tuned not to have a break in period like old cars where mechnical parts had to be in motion to achieve a better consistency and settle up. Hows the deal here, I do really more insight on this cause this car has D4-S port and direct injectors 2 which work at different revolutions, would be wise to know as to know when they kick up or not.

[dssence]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I see that you live in Argentina. Do you live at high altitude?

The rarefied air at altitude can yield lower fuel economy, I believe, but I could be mistaken.

Hi thanks for jumping in. Nope it's not high altitude here. What's for sure weather it's really humid. high humidity index most of the times.

[dssence]

Originally Posted by chrisl

I wouldn't get something that remaps the throttle - you can get the same effect for free by simply changing your driving habits. That having been said, 12l/100k sounds really bad for this car (that's 19 us mpg). Are you driving it in the city all the time and being really aggressive with the throttle?

You're right sounds really bad, taking into account that the first average I had on my first tank gave 18litres per 100km, now I'm getting 12 every 100km at least it's diminishing not sure if would keep improving. But yes I'm driving uban city not high commute highway.
I'm trying to figure out if this car came badly tuned up from factory. Or there's something else going on. I'm coming from my old Toyota celica GT liftback 1979 Year car, so I might be used to the old pedal which uses a wire to open up the carburator. From the first time i felt the sensitivity of the gas pedal was like too much, at first it was difficult to me to achieve a steady increase without jumping harshly in rpms. Maybe that's what's causing this fuel consumption maybe not.
That's why I asked about the throttle device which might do a better resample on the gas pedal when you depress it. I might be wrong but myself coming from that old car I think it's my foot which got used to a pedal which uses a wire which tensions and open up the carburator for the throttle. This car doesn't use a tension to open the throttle it's like electronic right?
Again what should be the average Litre per 100km I should be getting using it on city not highway.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by dssence

Now going back to the fuel economy thing, I told the guys what happened that when I took the car hof te dealer with the full tank they filled up , I ended up with the last quarter tank and have done 140km with the ecu showing an average of 18Litres per 100km Totally NOT aceptable
Last week I filled up the tank ( 2nd fill) V-power shell, with only the last 1/4 tank I filled up 32 litres (guessing the fuel needle it's not accurate cause every 1/4 tank should be 12.5 litres) .
Anyways i'm shifting gears shortly (sometimes I guide myself with G-on blinking arrow up) and damn I'm keeping rpms stable below 3k I thought it would be better to keep rpms constant to achieve better fuel economy. But you're saying :

AFAIK new cars are factory tuned not to have a break in period like old cars where mechnical parts had to be in motion to achieve a better consistency and settle up. Hows the deal here, I do really more insight on this cause this car has D4-S port and direct injectors 2 which work at different revolutions, would be wise to know as to know when they kick up or not.

Right so here's my advice, some will disagree and you may remember this from the last time I responded to you asking this question.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=26
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...9&postcount=36

You're trying to judge the fuel economy of a car based on one tank of gas you haven't even finished yet. That's like trying to judge how long a cell phone/laptop battery lasts based on one hour of use without accounting for talking time, web browsing time, video watching time etc.

I've said it a few times and I'll say it again: If you are driving stop and go then you WILL get the numbers you are describing, especially when the car isn't broken in.

There is a book in your car that details the manufacturer recommended break in procedure. It's fine if you disagree with Toyota, many people do, but it is generally accepted that fuel economy improves after the car is 'broken in'.

Get through two whole tanks of gas (needle to at least the 1/4 mark, if not further) and record the mileage at each fillup (you should have 3 mileage recordings) and then come back. Until then I'd say what you're describing is normal.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Porsche

I was told years ago, when visiting people in Boulder, that the cars sold there were "tuned" expressly for high altitude. Our "flat-lander" new Datsun (it was a few years ago) was feeble up there.

I always wondered about the cars sold up there. Is there any truth to this, or is it something that is no longer applicable to modern computer controlled cars?

Turbos are good at altitude, of course.

Well, as I best recall, back in the day, when carburetors metered out the gas and allowed in the air for the A/FR, some of the folks at higher altitudes would re-jet the carburetors with smaller jets to compensate for the thinner air.

However, I found out with my 2006 Miata that the ECU did a pretty good job of making adjustments, up to 14,000 ft at least.


Yep, up there ...... ya gotta know what your do-en if you let the car's tail step out ..... why? ......do you see the guard rail ..... nope cause there ain't none .....and it's a loooong, rocky way down ........eeeeeeehhhhaaaaaaaa.....


humfrz