Engine Oil Cooked?

[sierra]

Has anyone else noticed a burnt oil/exhaust smell when giving the engine a bit above 5000rpm?
I noticed this start some weeks ago and it's been getting stronger.
The car has about 7000km on the clock and hadn't, until yesterday, had an oil change. Toyota have the service interval at 9 months/15000km so they clearly think the factory oil is good for 15000km.

I smelt the oil on the dipstick and it was the same as the smell in the car so I assumed and hoped it was the oil. I got fed up trying to get Penrite HPR 0 which is fully synthetic 0-30 and opted for HPR 5 which is 5-40, also full synthetic.
It cured the smell. I did a couple of full throttle runs to the cut out in 2nd and 3rd when it was warmed right up and not a hint of burnt oil with the window up or down. No loss of power with the heavier oil that I could notice, it felt better if anything.

Interesting to note that I used an extractor pump for the first time and was very impressed after being very doubtful.
It worked better than expected because it removed exactly 5.5L, each ring on the reservoir is 1L. The oil after a run is spotless, so it must have been very efficient. So much easier, especially when the car is this low.
I half filled a bucket with hot soapy water and sucked that through it afterwards with another half bucket of hot clean water and it's spotless ready for the next change.
The new smaller oil filter look tiny.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/OIL-FLUID...item3a6cdfea30

[nix]

I actually retained the oem oil and coolant for the first 2500km and through my turbo kit install, then for another 1000km afterwards. No problems at all with the oil when it was finally changed.

I stuck to 0w20 even with the higher FI temps as my shop has had some problems running heavier weights on FB20 engines recently and wanted to avoid it for now.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by nix

I actually retained the oem oil and coolant for the first 2500km and through my turbo kit install, then for another 1000km afterwards. No problems at all with the oil when it was finally changed.

I stuck to 0w20 even with the higher FI temps as my shop has had some problems running heavier weights on FB20 engines recently and wanted to avoid it for now.

My oil was good for the first 5000km or so.
What problems have the FB20 engines had and what grades were involved?
They do list 5w-30 synthetic in the book and it's that with Penrites signature extra 10. It's hard to believe anything as thin as 0w-20 can lubricate anything, let alone when it's in an engine like this one?
Penrite list 4 oils for this engine. 0w-20, 5w-30, 5w-30 and 5w-40. All synthetic. I just hope it lasts better than the factory oil did.

[nix]

I think it was a cavitation or bearing issue you'd have to call and ask (S&J) but they are competing in a v8 supercars event this weekend.

There is already heavy discussion on weights here by more experienced oil/suby engine gurus if you look around.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by nix

I think it was a cavitation or bearing issue you'd have to call and ask (S&J) but they are competing in a v8 supercars event this weekend.

There is already heavy discussion on weights here by more experienced oil/suby engine gurus if you look around.

Thanks.

I have searched for threads on the topic but didn't find anything relevant to this problem or the results of using heavier weights?

[bluesubie]

Your best bet to determine if the oil was cooked would have been to do a used oil analysis.
http://www.oilcheck.com.au/

If the problems that nix mentions were due to cavitation, you can just do a google on thick oils and cavitation (it doesn't have to be limited to the BRZ/GT-86).

This is referring to 10W-60, but the same concept could apply when you bump up 2 SAE oil grades in any engine with stock internals:

The thicker viscosity oils lead to a slower oil flow rate, which can lead to several problems. There can be localised high oil pressures in the engine, causing increased wear at certain points as the oilways are not designed to cope with the thicker oil. One of the main functions of the oil is to carry heat away from the engine and that is then cooled by the air flow over the sump – with the thicker oil the flow rate is slower, meaning less heat is taken away and higher oil temperatures occur (that can also lead to people thinking they need thicker oils). In a worst case scenario with thick oils (when not required) is that you will experience air entrainment and cavitation inside the bearings at high RPM. Not clever stuff!

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/tech-...10w-60-oil.pdf

Basically, you want as thin as possible and only as thick as necessary for your driving conditions. Penrite HPR0 is ACEA A3 rated so it's likely a thicker 30 grade with a High Temp High Shear similar to some 40 grade oils (at least 3.5 or higher).

-Dennis

[sierra]

Thanks for the info.

I still have the oil I drained but wont do an oil analysis at this stage because I know it was rooted by the smell and changing it also stopped the smell when driving. I'll keep a sample though and if it happens again I will get both lots checked. Hopefully it wont happen again but i'm amazed nobody else seems to have had the same problem?

I'll leave the HPR 5 in for now as they do list it for the engine but will switch to HPR 0 in September. Maybe they didn't use a synthetic oil at the factory and it didn't handle the summer heat here very well?

[ducks]

I can smell something burning with the windows down at over 5k rpms. swapped factory fill to motul 0w-20 at about 1.5k miles and changed again to motul at ~8.5k miles. didn't drive with the windows down all winter, so I first noticed it 2 weeks ago at ~13k miles.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by ducks

I can smell something burning with the windows down at over 5k rpms. swapped factory fill to motul 0w-20 at about 1.5k miles and changed again to motul at ~8.5k miles. didn't drive with the windows down all winter, so I first noticed it 2 weeks ago at ~13k miles.

Thanks for that.
Could you pull the dipstick out and have a sniff? The oil I drained stinks and the new oil smells sweet. I know it's going to pick up contamination but it smells stronger than is normal and if high oil temps, which have been reported, are cooking the oil we need to know and find the solution.

[ducks]

Originally Posted by sierra

Thanks for that.
Could you pull the dipstick out and have a sniff? The oil I drained stinks and the new oil smells sweet. I know it's going to pick up contamination but it smells stronger than is normal and if high oil temps, which have been reported, are cooking the oil we need to know and find the solution.

right after a 20 min drive with a little time over 5k rpms, the dipstick didn't smell quite the same as the burning smell. it did smell a little like gas though. current batch has been in there for ~6.5k miles. it doesn't look like the oil level has changed at all. i'll be changing it out soon and will send in a sample to blackstone.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by ducks

right after a 20 min drive with a little time over 5k rpms, the dipstick didn't smell quite the same as the burning smell. it did smell a little like gas though. current batch has been in there for ~6.5k miles. it doesn't look like the oil level has changed at all. i'll be changing it out soon and will send in a sample to blackstone.

I can't figure out how the smell is getting in the car? The breather is a closed loop sytem and the only possibility is from the exhaust. If I get fish and chips I put them in the boot to keep the smell out but if I drop a window it fills the car, so maybe there is a flow from the back into the cabin with the window/s down? If it was the exhaust you would expect it to be burning oil and see the fall on the dipstick?
Mine was overfilled by another 50% of the dipstick range from new but has dropped to the high mark in the last month or so.

[getbent]

Check to make sure you don't have the plate leak that some folks have on the back of the passenger-side cylinder head. If that is leaking a bit and burning off on the exhaust manifold, that could be where your burning oil smell is coming from.

[sierra]

Originally Posted by getbent

Check to make sure you don't have the plate leak that some folks have on the back of the passenger-side cylinder head. If that is leaking a bit and burning off on the exhaust manifold, that could be where your burning oil smell is coming from.

That was the first thing I checked. No leaks anywhere.
Also if it was a leak how would changing the oil fix it?

[Nezz]

I'm not a fan of the factory oil. I was starting to get a mild oily smell while driving the car, as well.

Also it's worth noting a "hot oil" operation smell won't take much to get inside the cabin. Any sportscar worth a damn run on "fresh air" AC settings will suck that smell in. Hot engines smell like hot engines, and if their oil stinks, well!

Owned a few cars that you could smell the operation of when they got hot, leaks or no leaks, and full, closed loop emissions systems.