Better tyres... on the front only?

[ChrisD]

I like the lack of grip that the stock tyres have, but only on the rear... I don't like the front having no grip as soon as it rains and nearly understeering off the road when I come to a tight corner lol

Seems like a lot of people recommend the Michelin Pilot Super Sports, but I assume if I get them all round then the rear end will be a lot less playful... so I'm wondering if maybe I could just stick them on the front only?

Would it be stupid to have much more grippy tyres on the front? Would it make the car hard to drive or would it actually give me the desired effect of having plenty of front end grip even in damp conditions but still let the back end slide around a bit?

Of course if there is a better tyre that you'd recommend getting for all 4 wheels that will still let me slide around but won't be quite as dangerous in the wet then I'm all ears

Cheers
Chris

[Akari]

You would really give up the balance of the car IMO. Stock you can quite easily induce understeer or oversteer in a corner since it's fairly well balanced but you won't really be able to use much more traction in the front without the back end always sliding out. If you're always getting understeer then you may want to invest in some track time; The tiniest bit of trail breaking will eliminate pretty much all understeer.

Just replace all four, there's still plenty of fun to be had. I have Pilot Super Sports in 235/45/17 and still throw the back end around as I please.

[cjd]

You should be able to tune in as much oversteer as desired with the suspension setup you're considering.

This platform is so easily tuned I don't think the downsides of such differences in traction are worth it - stick with the same tires all around (you'll WANT that traction sometimes too...)

I've run less grip in back for AutoX on a FWD (195 vs 205) but exactly the same tire; both ends behaved the same way, but I had just a little less traction in the back - combined with the utter lack of rear suspension movement through stupidly stiff strut settings (sadly undersprung) and a bit more rake than usual, I was able to push the car around a lot like an AWD, with far less traction out of the corner That said, I think if you want to use tires to tun in understeer, width differences is a better way to do it. Stick with the same tire all around. I'd still tune the suspension over the tires - far more predictable. And that equates to safety.

C

[Vracer111]

I experimented with sticky tires up front and stocks in the rear for a little while. 215/45-17 Kumho Ecsta XS on 17x8 +36mm offset Kosei K4R's front and stock Primacy HPs on 17x7.5 +40mm offset Enkei Fujins in the back. I really liked it for relaxed driving but pushing it there really needed to be more grip in the rear. The stock tires I do not like for wet weather driving... they are not that great to almost dangerous in unpredictable conditions. And wet weather driving with that setup was not that great as neither tire was a good wet weather tire.

When the weather got cold (around 40F) the rears actually had just as much grip as the fronts though and the balance was excellent! Problem is Ecsta XS @ 40F is not the same as it is at warmer temps...grip falls off and it slips around more leading to understeer if you pushed it too hard. Overall I'd recommend getting the same tire all around that is gripper than stock but not a really sticky compound tire.

I personally love what I'm running now - 205/45-17 Ecsta Sport LE's on the 17x7.5 +40mm Enkei Fujins. The tread is actually wider than that of the stock 215/45-17 Primacy HP and it is PHENOMINAL in the wet and rides better than stock in all conditions. It is a soft and sticky compound tire, but not as sticky at the Ecsta XS, balance is perfect at just slightly wider than stock contact patch and the car responds at will. Not difficult to slide the rear out if you want, but immediately and minutely controllable in the process as well with a totally stable feeling. Nice thing about the 205/45-17 size is you are lowering the CG by ~.15" and increasing your acceleration without changing suspension or drivetrain components...so the car feels more stable and eager to accelerate/decelerate by just a simple small reduction in tire diameter. The CG drop + more sensitive throttle response is what allows for finer and more precise control of the chassis.

[fatoni]

how does rain reduce the front tires grip more than the rears?

[gravitylover]

Fronts are more likely to hydroplane because they need to move all of the water out of the way very quickly as opposed to the rears that are running through where the water has already been evacuated.

[reardrv]

If you want more front end grip then get some camber bolts and a proper alignment. It will give you better results and cost less than trying to miss match tires.

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by gravitylover

Fronts are more likely to hydroplane because they need to move all of the water out of the way very quickly as opposed to the rears that are running through where the water has already been evacuated.

Yeah plus as it is the front wheels that actually do the turning, when they have no grip you get understeer before you get oversteer.

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by cjd

You should be able to tune in as much oversteer as desired with the suspension setup you're considering.

This platform is so easily tuned I don't think the downsides of such differences in traction are worth it - stick with the same tires all around (you'll WANT that traction sometimes too...)

OK thanks - excuse my n00bness but what exactly would you change on the suspension to affect understeer? I have some KW V3 coilovers on the way so they should allow for quite a bit of adjustment, but at the moment I don't know exactly what I should be adjusting to try to reduce the understeer.

Having said that, in the dry it is fine... it's only in the wet that I notice the front end sliding. So will the suspension really help with that or is that all down to the tyre?

[ChrisD]

Originally Posted by Akari

You would really give up the balance of the car IMO. Stock you can quite easily induce understeer or oversteer in a corner since it's fairly well balanced but you won't really be able to use much more traction in the front without the back end always sliding out. If you're always getting understeer then you may want to invest in some track time; The tiniest bit of trail breaking will eliminate pretty much all understeer.

Just replace all four, there's still plenty of fun to be had. I have Pilot Super Sports in 235/45/17 and still throw the back end around as I please.

I actually did a track day today - it was completely dry all day which was kind of annoying (for once) as I was hoping to be able to play around in the wet conditions and see what I can do to affect the understeer. In the dry I had very little understeer, certainly nothing I would complain about. It is only in the wet that I notice it and it is not all the time, which is what makes it unpleasant... I never know if the front is going to grip or not when I'm going round tight corners or roundabouts in the wet.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by ChrisD

OK thanks - excuse my n00bness but what exactly would you change on the suspension to affect understeer? I have some KW V3 coilovers on the way so they should allow for quite a bit of adjustment, but at the moment I don't know exactly what I should be adjusting to try to reduce the understeer.

Having said that, in the dry it is fine... it's only in the wet that I notice the front end sliding. So will the suspension really help with that or is that all down to the tyre?

Well... it's not quite a "just do this" answer, but: a nice flowchart to help. And for oversteer. Picking tires for the conditions, and understanding how your tires behave in any given condition are important. I'd probably be increasing rebound up front.

That assumes you have an alignment with adequate negative camber.

I'm by no means an expert, and haven't played with different traction levels on this car. I know at some point that is a viable tuning option, but if you're going there I suspect you'll have a pile of different tires to be trying out on your car.

If the front stuck, I bet the tail would come around just as easily, and perhaps far too easily. You may simply be trying to carry too much speed in the wet for the tires/alignment/suspension setup you have. This is where keeping traction capability consistent is valuable, at least to me - small shifts in traction won't be amplified by traction differences. Let's say you hit a small bump that grabs the edge of the front tires just a touch; that could become snap oversteer quite easily with rears that stick significantly less. And in a RWD car I really don't want significantly less traction in the back - I assume I'm not the only one.

It's entirely probable different settings on the dampers will be needed for rain vs dry - and very easily changed as conditions change. Spring rates may be tougher to change but might be part of the game. If you have an adjustable swaybar you can tweak that pretty easily too. And tire pressures - always tire pressures.

FWIW, I like a touch of understeer driving around town. Far too many potential "oh shit" moments where it's safer all around, especially if a bit of drift leads to OTHER drivers starting to freak out... but I don't push the car around town either. Just not worth it, at least not in Chicago. I do need a responsive car to avoid the potholes though (and I know I freaked someone out earlier this year avoiding a pothole.)

C

[gravitylover]

Originally Posted by cjd

(and I know I freaked someone out earlier this year avoiding a pothole.)

C

Heh, I do this at least once a day. I figure better to get honked at, yelled at or followed and berated than damage the car or worse, wreck it.

Yeah watch out for that snap oversteer, it's real and will bite you in the ass when you least expect it.

[Poodles]

You'll simply have to slow down for conditions...

Keep in mind once you start turning, the rear tires are no longer in the front tire's path and will hydroplane. This is a common issue with idiots with FWD cars that only replace the front tires and leave the back bald...