OEM alignment adjustment?

[TOPEC]

Looking for some insight on what can or cannot be adjusted and their limits on a completely stock 2013 FR-S. Trying to achieve -1.5 to -2 degrees of camber up front and -1 to -1.5 degrees in the rear, 0 toe all around. Can these specs be achieved without aftermarket parts, if not, will front SPC camber bolts and rear whiteline camber kit do it? This will be a daily driven car with no plans of tracking or autox, just purely spirited driving, future plans may involve RCA yellow springs or ST coilovers but that is a big MAY. TIA!

[strat61caster]

No factory camber adjustment, you're on the right track though. -2 and -1 would probably yield a more balanced car, but that's not necessarily a good thing for public roads, and you'll have a little bit of camber wear on the front, but no issue really. -1.5 F/R might be a good compromise.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=103609

[churchx]

100% OEM camber is not adjustable, only toe is. Camber can be changed by parts that add adjustability and by lowering (increases neg. camber too by fixed amount).
But as rear camber in oem alingment is about -1.2, then it's rather close to what you need. Just get camberbolts for front (single set for to -1.5, camberbolts for both strut holes for up to -2.3). Rear camber adjusting .. it's PITA with camber bushings, better go straight away for cheaper LCAs like Whiteline/SPC/Eibach, or use stock -1.2, if it's even enough between sides.

[cjd]

You will pay the difference in labor using the whiteline bushings vs SPC/Whiteline rear LCA. You may also need to find a new shop every time you do an alignment... they SUCK to work with, or so goes the word on the street.

SPC camber bolts in the front bottom hole. Front lower 14mm bolt to the top 16mm spot (14mm up top is in the service manual).

Maybe a touch of rear toe-in.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by TOPEC

Looking for some insight on what can or cannot be adjusted and their limits on a completely stock 2013 FR-S. Trying to achieve -1.5 to -2 degrees of camber up front and -1 to -1.5 degrees in the rear, 0 toe all around. Can these specs be achieved without aftermarket parts, if not, will front SPC camber bolts and rear whiteline camber kit do it? This will be a daily driven car with no plans of tracking or autox, just purely spirited driving, future plans may involve RCA yellow springs or ST coilovers but that is a big MAY. TIA!

I'd suggest you just leave that puppy alone, with the OEM specs.




humfrz

[TOPEC]

thank to all for the advice, will look into the LCA. looks like 08+ wrx LCA from SPC will fit the FRS? just came across a used set for sale lol.

Originally Posted by humfrz

I'd suggest you just leave that puppy alone, with the OEM specs.




humfrz

whats wrong with running more camber for street use?

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by TOPEC

...........

whats wrong with running more camber for street use?

I don't reckon there is anything "wrong" with it ....... I just figure that the engineers who designed the suspension, figured that that range of adjustments were best for stability and tire wear.......




humfrz

[cjd]

Originally Posted by humfrz

I don't reckon there is anything "wrong" with it ....... I just figure that the engineers who designed the suspension, figured that that range of adjustments were best for stability and tire wear.......




humfrz

Meh. Not if you drive hard, enough. You'll wear the outer edges of the front tires because not enough negative camber.

I'd wager it's a pretty big safety play in the mix, and a little comfort; steering that goes where you tell it (far more than stock) isn't what people expect - and camber tends to follow a bit more on the road as well, so takes more attention.

C

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by cjd

Meh. Not if you drive hard, enough. You'll wear the outer edges of the front tires because not enough negative camber.

I'd wager it's a pretty big safety play in the mix, and a little comfort; steering that goes where you tell it (far more than stock) isn't what people expect - and camber tends to follow a bit more on the road as well, so takes more attention.

C

Oh, I was just going on how the OP says he plans on driving his car:

"This will be a daily driven car with no plans of tracking or autox, just purely spirited driving,"

So, if more negative camber is better ...... why wasn't the car set up that way in the first place ......??

..... help me out here .......


humfrz

PS - I'll have know, there sonny, I'm not a stranger to negative camber ......

[cjd]

Originally Posted by humfrz

So, if more negative camber is better ...... why wasn't the car set up that way in the first place ......??

lawyers

[TOPEC]

Originally Posted by humfrz

So, if more negative camber is better ...... why wasn't the car set up that way in the first place ......??

factory alignments are almost always tailored to the general public, which usually means its on the conservative side. manufactures want people to understeer head on into a tree having the front of the car take the hit at the limits rather than oversteer sideways into a tree. imagine how many law suits manufactures have to deal with if everyones oversteering into trees because the public sees the car as "unsafe" or "unpredictable" at the limits where as people who understeers into an accident, the general public will see a dumb driver whos over speeding.

[churchx]

Understeer bias as most commong oem alignment is one thing, and also manufacturers want not most grip in curves, but for least possible tire wear (at daily driving), which is from closer to 0 camber. Also 0 camber may work better in low grip such as on gravel/ice/snow.
It's complete opposite to performance/track use though, where grip in curves is limited by insufficient camber to compensate tire sidewall flex and tire outside will be worn/ripped. Understeery front pushing out also won't help much getting through tight turns faster.
Hence imho it's best to have some middleground. Less understeer bias vs oem & camber somewhere in middle, between oem choice and track dedicated camber. That also seems what many are suggesting of.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by TOPEC

factory alignments are almost always tailored to the general public, which usually means its on the conservative side. manufactures want people to understeer head on into a tree having the front of the car take the hit at the limits rather than oversteer sideways into a tree. imagine how many law suits manufactures have to deal with if everyones oversteering into trees because the public sees the car as "unsafe" or "unpredictable" at the limits where as people who understeers into an accident, the general public will see a dumb driver whos over speeding.

Interesting theory ......


humfrz