FA20 Engine Expert Needed in Central NJ - Payment for Your Expertise

[jamison884]

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[CSG Mike]

Based on your previous thread, your engine failed because you lost lubrication, as a result of your oil over-thinning from excessive oil temperatures resulting from non-normal use.

Mobil 1 is not a quality oil.

I've seen many engines fail from the lack of an oil cooler.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Based on your previous thread, your engine failed because you lost lubrication, as a result of your oil over-thinning from excessive oil temperatures resulting from non-normal use.

Mobil 1 is not a quality oil.

I've seen many engines fail from the lack of an oil cooler.

... What? Usually I let dumb out of the blue statements go, particularly on threads where I have but a passing interest, but please explain this one. Mobil 1 has many quantifiable qualities, so I'm not sure saying it is without quality is accurate. Sorry for butting in OP and good luck, but I've gotta ask...

Are you implying that Mobil 1 oil breaks down at a lower temperature than some other oil brand of your preference? Or are you implying that Mobil 1 is not an effective lubricant? Is there a fault with the base stock, or additives? I've run Mobil 1 FS in my '13 for 30k+ miles and drive the crap out of it so please let me know what properties of the oil will cause my engine to explode and how to prevent it.

[CSG Mike]

Superior protection at low temperatures, enabling easier and faster start-ups in cold weather. For instance, Mobil 1 is designed to withstand temperatures as low as -51°C (-60 °F)
Enhanced high-temperature durability, reducing oxidation and wear on critical engine parts. Again, Mobil 1 is designed to withstand temperatures up to 204°C (400°F)

I think we'd all agree those claims by Mobil 1 are a bit... exaggerated


Define "driving the crap out of it", because any oil will be fine for extended WOT. It's sustained RPMs that are the issue.

[tyler_win_photo]

Originally Posted by Spuds

... What? Usually I let dumb out of the blue statements go, particularly on threads where I have but a passing interest, but please explain this one. Mobil 1 has many quantifiable qualities, so I'm not sure saying it is without quality is accurate. Sorry for butting in OP and good luck, but I've gotta ask...

Are you implying that Mobil 1 oil breaks down at a lower temperature than some other oil brand of your preference? Or are you implying that Mobil 1 is not an effective lubricant? Is there a fault with the base stock, or additives? I've run Mobil 1 FS in my '13 for 30k+ miles and drive the crap out of it so please let me know what properties of the oil will cause my engine to explode and how to prevent it.

According to some threads on NASIOC, Mobil 1 and boxer engines don't seem to play too nicely

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I think we'd all agree those claims by Mobil 1 are a bit... exaggerated


Define "driving the crap out of it", because any oil will be fine for extended WOT. It's sustained RPMs that are the issue.

I am not arguing that Mobil's claims are accurate. Engineers likely say one thing and marketing jumps on it without including the context. But that doesn't mean that the product is not just as capable as any other.

I understand that high rpm is what causes oil temperature to rise. Without going into details, I'm seeing oil temperatures ( pulled from ecu) up around 230 something F. Interestingly enough, my car starts pulling timing when it gets up there but that's besides the point.

I run my crappy econobox Hyundai at 4k rpm(I think redline is like 5 something) for 30 minutes at a time in top gear with only 3 quarts of Mobil 1 in it and it is still going strong at 85k miles.

Again, I ask for evidence of your claim.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by tyler_win_photo

According to some threads on NASIOC, Mobil 1 and boxer engines don't seem to play too nicely

I don't spend time there. Any links would be helpful. Also, does Porsche have the same problems?

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I am not arguing that Mobil's claims are accurate. Engineers likely say one thing and marketing jumps on it without including the context. But that doesn't mean that the product is not just as capable as any other.

I understand that high rpm is what causes oil temperature to rise. Without going into details, I'm seeing oil temperatures ( pulled from ecu) up around 230 something F. Interestingly enough, my car starts pulling timing when it gets up there but that's besides the point.

I run my crappy econobox Hyundai at 4k rpm(I think redline is like 5 something) for 30 minutes at a time in top gear with only 3 quarts of Mobil 1 in it and it is still going strong at 85k miles.

Again, I ask for evidence of your claim.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums

Sorry, but if you're seeing 230F without an oil cooler, you're hardly "driving the piss out of your car". You can get to 230F by sitting in 3rd gear on the highway for 45 seconds.

Works for you =/= works for everyone. Any synthetic 0W20 is fine for casual use with this car. Tracking? Not so much.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Spuds

I don't spend time there. Any links would be helpful. Also, does Porsche have the same problems?

Porsche does not seem to. The Mobile 1 oil in Subarus is a known concern. Just do a quick search and that is evident. I had a bad time using it in my old Talon as well and soon found out that it was not very compatible with those engines either. I have no clue why but it just doesn't hold up well for some engines.
That said, there is no restriction or even a negative recommendation on using it from Subaru/Toyota so the brand of oil used should have no impact on the OP's claim even if it was actually at fault.

[weederr33]

Fine, I'll ask, what would you recommend as an alternative to Mobil 1?

[Azzudien]

To the OP, good luck with your case but it doesn't sound good for you.

I agree with CSG Mike, 230 degree oil temp is nothing really. I track my car in the Northeast which is relatively cool temperature wise. Hottest air temp day on the track has been 82 degrees. I routinely hit 270-280 oil temps before I have to back off for a few laps to cool it down a bit. (Oil cooler installation in process, $%^% 2017 air box).

Aggressive driving to me is never letting the car dip below 4000rpm to keep it out of the power dip, and that is for 20-25 minute track sessions. Something you would never be able to do on the street.

[jamison884]

For clarification purposes, this engine is stock and had six oil changes over the course of 26,000 miles and four years of second car usage.

The engine failed THREE laps in on a 1.2 mile road course (1.2 is off memory, but it's short). RPMs were not sustained above 4,000 RPM during this time, as it was my first track time using a manual of any kind, so they were essentially practice laps learning the gear changes required for each turn.

The check engine light never came on during or after and the coolant temperate was precisely in the middle. There was no coolant steam. It's my understanding both coolant and the properties of the engine oil work to cool any engine. If the coolant wasn't even elevated, how could the fresh oil exceed max temps and cause a failure within three total laps, which includes the slow-in half lap to the pits? I'm no expert, but this failure isn't passing the BS test for me.

Finally, no one at Toyota corporate or the dealership said anything derogatory concerning the Mobil1 oil quality. Also, it was a cool day in early March if that helps any.

Thanks for the replies so far, but I'm still looking for an expert to testify in what would likely be small claims court simply to limit my expenses exposure and recover partial value of the $5,300 quote for a replacement.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by jamison884

Thanks for the replies so far, but I'm still looking for an expert to testify in what would likely be small claims court simply to limit my expenses exposure and recover partial value of the $5,300 quote for a replacement.

Element Tuning is likely your best bet as being the closest well known 86 builder on the East coast. There is also Moto-East in Pennsylvania, but they will both likely charge for their services and eat into any reward you get by a significant amount, if they feel they are even able to perform the duties you request.

In for suggestions on oil better than Mobil 1 that doesn't break the bank for casual track/autox use, tired of paying ~$50 for an oil change on Eneos.
Edit: but I'm willing to keep paying the 'big bucks' to keep my engine healthy for a long time.

[gtengr]

Does the dealership know you towed it from a road course?