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Originally Posted by DohcTor
The 2005 Scion tC is faster than the twins. Almost anything is lol
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Maybe if the twins driver is asleep...
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Originally Posted by strat61caster
tl;dr test isn't biased (aside from admitted human preference in said article), trim differences are noted in the article, nobody should base their views on one source, article is fine if a bit hamfisted.
From the Motortrend article:
Again, very clear to me what the difference in trims were even with no background knowledge in conjunction with page three which clearly states the trim levels and prices of each package, the only thing not mentioned is the LSD option on the Miata and they're wrong about the Bilstein's being an option on the Club trim. The price difference will shake out once people take the time to look away from the shiny red paint, as you put it it's a $26.5k BRZ (don't forget delivery fees) with doodads, and I'll claim it's a $29.5k Miata with doodads. The Bilstein's come standard on the Club trim at $29.5k, the wheels and brake kit save a whopping 10 lbs total, and those Bridgestone S001's are hardly leaps and bounds ahead of the Michelin's. I really can't get on board with this being called an unfair or biased comparison. It's not like Mazda sent out cars with slicks or custom suspension a la Ferrari, the price differential is right there, the trim levels are listed out in the open.
http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...ta/brakes.html
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ub-test-review
I don't see the point in hot lapping the Miata without the LSD to get a $26k comparison, benchracing at it's finest imo, irrelevant. If you have $26k and want the best new track car possible, save up the extra $3k if the Miata ticks the right boxes, trim level is not a game changing factor here, we're not talking about a Mustang V6 vs V8.
They get paid for snarky banter, otherwise nobody would comment and everyone would say "Yup, those are the laptimes and figures along with some basic impressions". Which has been ardently covered in these responses already.
It's not like they shitcanned the BRZ or that it's some ridiculous comparison when we regularly link comparisons to Cayman's and 370Z's and S2000's and RX-8's because they show the strengths of the 86. This showcases the strengths of the Miata due to it's weight
As for the responses in this thread, seems to me it's half 'fuck yeah the new Miata is awesome' and half butthurt from fanboi's trying to talk down the Miata's advantage coming out of this single review. I guess you can tell which camp I fall into.
Go ahead, take the hypothetical $3k price difference and put hypothetical tires and brakes and alignment on the 86. It doesn't matter. They're damn close and based on what Motortrend observed, the Miata edges out the BRZ from the factory for a couple grand more. |
The proper comparison would have been to a BRZ tS, but that's not available here (yet). Bilstein shocks, Brembo brakes, likely lighter wheels, and stickier rubber is a hell of an upgrade. Saving "maybe 10 lbs" is a hell of a lot when it's unsprung weight, and it could also be rotating weight.
Hell, the Bilsteins alone could have a massive hand in all this cause it's probably keeping the body roll down at least a bit.
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Originally Posted by SUB-FT86
For next generation of the FRS/BRZ I hope Toyobaru could drop 150-200 lbs more while giving us a FA20 with 15hp/10tq more or a FA22 or something.
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Well, if things go the way I think they will, the STI will likely be getting a 2.5L version of the FA engine. I don't see them keeping the ancient EJ for much longer considering the performance of the FA20.
What that means in the long run for the twins I don't know. There is potential there though.
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Originally Posted by strat61caster
LSD and Bilstein's are part of the Club package, that is the track oriented Miata offering and at $29.5k it is more expensive than the Toyobaru and you are correct, it is likely a significant increase in performance over the base ~$25k model.
The ~$3.4k Brembo package comes with brakes and BBS wheels, that is the package I am arguing is not a substantial performance upgrade, it's what pushes the Miata past the $32k mark. I don't think the 10 lbs weight reduction and added brake cooling add a significant performance advantage, it does add some performance no doubt, but not enough to reduce the 1.3 second gap significantly.
I do not know the tires offered on the Base vs. Club vs. Brembo package, they are listed as 205/45/17 Bridgestone S001's for MotorTrend's as tested, 280 treadwear to the HP Primacy's 340 treadwear (in 215/45/17). Both tires are not performance oriented imo, both tires will be replaced before serious hotlapping occurs. As I posted earlier, everybody points to rubber as an easy out, but in this case it's not like we're comparing performance tires to non-performance tires, they're both classed as 'sporty summer tires'. |
Brakes allow you to dive into corners faster and brake later. It's definitely a performance advantage to someone like Pobst as he'll be drive the car at 10/10ths and taking advantage of such things.
Also, treadwear is ONLY comparable within the same brand. There isn't a standard across tire brands for treadwear. Also, the Potenza's are a maximum performance summer tire while the Primacies are first and foremost a low rolling resistance tire that have been tuned for better performance. They're worlds apart.
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Originally Posted by DarkSunrise
Same here, can't wait to drive the new Miata. I really applaud Mazda for capturing the spirit (and weight) of the original NA Miata and combining it with a bigger engine, modern interior, and current-day safety standards. That couldn't have been easy to do.
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Safety standards have always been a bit....lax with the Miata. They've never been evaluated by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety or the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. So ultimately, we really just don't know.
Of course, the twins were top safety picks in comparison...