[AllDayJonRay]

Originally Posted by Sellout

It's easy to say that, but where are they? According to what you say they should be failing all over the place. To say we don't see it because people take the kits off and sell them is disingenuous at best. The vast majority of those kits get sold to other people who will install and use them, if they don't stay on the car on which they were originally installed.

It's not disingenuous. Nothing I said should make you believe that we see these turbos failing left and right. All I said was that you can't act like the fact that Greddy has been selling kits without bpv/bov's for a long time is some kind of evidence that bpv's aren't a good idea. I listed a couple of simple reasons why you might not hear about it if/when there are failures. For example, most people don't bother complaining on a forum about a turbo that failed on a second-hand kit... Not to mention, most people simply don't post on forums when their cars break.

It seems almost as if you're taking what I said to mean that his turbo can't or won't fail because of the lack of a BPV. That's not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that the lack of a BPV on his low boost turbo engine with a cute little paperweight of a turbo does not guarantee failure. It MIGHT fail due to the lack of that valve.

That's not what I said at all. I said that this type of compressor surge DOES cause damage to turbochargers, its just not as catastrophic as compressor surge under load. When the throttle plate slams shut and nothing releases the pressure in the charge pipes, its like slamming a break on your turbocharger. It adds to normal wear and tear, which is the same as 'causing damage'.

How many factory turbo engines run low boost?

A lot, and they all run bpv's, regardless of factory boost level.

It's just not that easy. It's a case of preventative parts and labor cost vs the possible parts and labor costs for warranty repairs. This should be completely obvious. What does a knock sensor cost? How about a replacement engine? That's extreme, but you get the idea. The BPV is a fraction of the cost of a turbo and the labor involved in replacing it, not to mention the customer demanding a loaner car for the repair time.

You're trying to make a point that bpv's can be left out, and you draw a parallel with knock sensors? OEMs use both, because they feel that it is necessary and/or cost effective to use both. I'll restate: If OE manufacturers didn't see a benefit in using bpv's, they would absolutely leave them out. You just said yourself that its a preventative part... If manufacturers didn't see that there was anything worth preventing, they wouldn't use them. And if they believe there's value in the money it costs to design, manufacturer and implement this part, I'll ask again, on what grounds are you arguing against that logic?

Says you. I think it's ridiculous to assume that influence is ignored by the OE manufacturers.

That's a guess if I've ever seen one.

It's not a guess at all. It's a simple deduction. Where do you think aftermarket companies get their ideas and designs from? You think the aftermarket was first in deciding to put bpv's on engines? OE manufacturers used bpv's before the first aftermarket bov was ever sold. Did I research for proof? Hell no, its not worth the time. A simple understanding of where aftermarket ideas come from is solid enough reasoning to keep me from wasting my time to prove that point.

AGAIN, I'm not saying it absolutely will not fail. I'm saying that your claim that it absolutely will fail is baseless. It's his car and his $300 to save by taking the manufacturer's word that a BPV isn't necessary.

I said that a lack of a bpv will cause damage to the turbine bearings over a long period of use. I never said anything like "don't drive without a bpv, your shit will blow up". Just that running a setup like this DOES add to wear and tear on your turbocharger, and definitely can lead to prematurely failure.

I just wanted to share the knowledge that running without a bpv is NOT healthy for turbochargers. Even if you were indifferent to the potential long term consequences, the performance and drivability improvements are still worth the money to install one.