[torqdork]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

If you're going to look at EPA testing methods, then you should be fair. 30mpg cruising on the highway and 30mpg average is very different. The Corvette is rated lower than 30mpg on the EPA cycle, and around town the gas mileage is absolutely horrendous. The EPA test is biased for city driving but even then you can't hide the 6+ liter engine which consumes more fuel at a fast idle than a typical car uses while travelling down the freeway.

I referenced highway ratings as a starting point and was "fair", providing .gov data. As you can see, both the Corvette and FR-S M/T's are within 1 mpg highway.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find....n=sbs&id=33907

Realistically, I get closer to the city rating during my DD's in the foothills here, about 21-22 mpg, spot on the EPA city rating. That also compares favorably with Corvette's city rating of 17 mpg and both require premium fuel. I wouldn't call that horrendous for the performance, I'll save that term for my 10-11 mpg 4,400lb. FJ Cruiser M/T over the same roads and for track days where those of us data logging in twins see 8-10 mpg.

The electric motor power is a function of regulation not technology. You can make an electric motor that pumps out 4hp/lb without even trying (if you try to compute the power density of a gasoline engine + transmission, hint, it's much lower than that even with crazy boost). If they wanted to, they could put larger capacitor banks and get twice the power with a slightly bigger motor.

The first Prius was sold in 1997, worldwide in 2000 when there were no mandates for hybrids. Rich taxpayer incentives, yes. But I question your 4hp/lb estimate in cars, maybe in model aircraft. Even the new BMW i3 is a fraction of that (2.5kW/kg) at a little over 1hp/lb. and the LEAF is about half that.

That's the main issue really, the energy storage medium, and actually getting it done. I think it's ultimately a good thing that F1 is making this happen (only Audi, Toyota, and Porsche had hybrids running races before this I think), because car manufacturers need to get experience integrating what is in concept very simple into actual cars that drive around and need to be reliable, and they are getting experience by having to tune these systems. Hopefully it means that in a few years at least all cars will have a high voltage bus with minor assist/regen capability built into either a belted motor-generator or integrated into the block (even better, weight savings by getting rid of the pulleys). It shouldn't cost very much money to do, swap the alternator with a slightly more expensive motor + power electronics and a small battery pack, ~1000 dollars should be doable, and you'll get a meaningful hp boost on lower powered cars plus a very good torque boost, which will allow less compromised cam profiles for manufacturers that are too cheap to implement variable lift, which gives you even more efficiency. There are a ton of synergies that you get from upgrading the electrical system to a mild hybrid system that manufacturers and consumers have been reluctant to adopt but this hopefully will change.

Toyota has refined the modular hybrid drivetrain to work with a variety of primary power sources. For storage, they still can't get LiOn's to work reliably without excess heat even with Tesla input (see Tesla fires) and the capacitive systems don't appear ready for mass market production yet. They've produced Atkinson cycle ICE's with variable lift and timing for years. They've sold over 6 million hybrids worldwide.

http://www.toyota.com/about/news/cor...Worldwide.html

Although demand has leveled lately (the Mississippi Prius plant was mothballed) and the market is currently saturated, demand is expected to increase but not as a function of performance or fuel economy, but to meet new CO² mandates. I wouldn't expect Toyota to be in a hurry to add another $1,000 (your estimate) to marginally improve economy when there are few or no more tax incentives except for electrics and even with them and a huge price cut last year, Plug-In Prius sales are in the tank.

It's easy for anyone to say what should and shouldn't be done to satisfy their agendas, not so much when considering worldwide geopolitics, economics, regulation and free market demand. Now that for some reason F1 believes it has to follow political whims, the natural extension would be fully electric F1. That's why I think the current direction of F1 is misguided.