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-   -   running lean (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42927)

EZWood 07-29-2013 09:05 PM

running lean
 
I'm running a catless header and I've been throwing a code p2096, post catalyst fuel trim system too lean bank 1. Any idea of risks for this? I know if its too lean I can blow my motor so I don't want any smart ass answers. I'm looking for actual technical discussion as to what is actually too lean and I will provide logs of Afr commanded and measured with corresponding rpm. Is there anything else I should be logging like load or anything else?

Hardrock4445 07-29-2013 09:17 PM

Did you run any sort of oxygen sensor spacer? I ran into this code too. So I took the spacer out and got po420 code. Long story short: watch your fuel trims. As long as you are +/- 5% from 0 you are fine. However CEL will affect you traction control systems. So spending time with spacers and washers to get the perfect spot in between where you will get lean code from being too far out, or p0420 code from being too close I've got over 7k on my Catless header with no ill effects and fuel trims +\- 5%

EZWood 07-29-2013 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardrock4445 (Post 1104810)
Did you run any sort of oxygen sensor spacer? I ran into this code too. So I took the spacer out and got po420 code. Long story short: watch your fuel trims. As long as you are +/- 5% from 0 you are fine. However CEL will affect you traction control systems. So spending time with spacers and washers to get the perfect spot in between where you will get lean code from being too far out, or p0420 code from being too close I've got over 7k on my Catless header with no ill effects and fuel trims +\- 5%

I have this weird 90% thing on my downstream sensor that was given to me when I bought the exhaust.

mrk1 07-29-2013 10:06 PM

Basic question, is the car tuned for no cats?

EZWood 07-29-2013 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrk1 (Post 1104907)
Basic question, is the car tuned for no cats?

No tune.

arghx7 07-29-2013 10:27 PM

ECU is not getting an expected rear o2 sensor reading because of the catless header.

The rear o2 sensor is used for the catalyst monitor (which most people are aware of) but it's also used to adjust the reading of the front o2 sensor in cruise operation. It accounts for degradation in the front o2 sensor.

EZWood 07-29-2013 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arghx7 (Post 1104948)
ECU is not getting an expected rear o2 sensor reading because of the catless header.

The rear o2 sensor is used for the catalyst monitor (which most people are aware of) but it's also used to adjust the reading of the front o2 sensor in cruise operation. It accounts for degradation in the front o2 sensor.

Which sensor is bank 1 and which is bank 2? If bank 1 is the downstream that explains everything, if bank 1 is the sensor before the cat I'll have some questions. The obvious answer is to have the car tuned, but I have other things that thousand dollars needs to go to, on the other hand if it is running too lean it might be worth it to do a tune first.

mad_sb 07-29-2013 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZWood (Post 1105011)
Which sensor is bank 1 and which is bank 2? If bank 1 is the downstream that explains everything, if bank 1 is the sensor before the cat I'll have some questions. The obvious answer is to have the car tuned, but I have other things that thousand dollars needs to go to, on the other hand if it is running too lean it might be worth it to do a tune first.

We only have bank 1. Sensor 1 is up stream aka primary O2 aka front sensor aka pre cat. Sensor 2 is downstream aka secondary O2 aka rear sensor aka post cat.

The lean code probably indicates sensor 2 is a bit too far from the stream of exhaust gas or has too small of an opening.

EZWood 07-30-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mad_sb (Post 1105095)
We only have bank 1. Sensor 1 is up stream aka primary O2 aka front sensor aka pre cat. Sensor 2 is downstream aka secondary O2 aka rear sensor aka post cat.

The lean code probably indicates sensor 2 is a bit too far from the stream of exhaust gas or has too small of an opening.

It was too far. I removed the spacer, probably gonna get a running rich code. Thanks for the help.

mad_sb 07-31-2013 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZWood (Post 1106105)
It was too far. I removed the spacer, probably gonna get a running rich code. Thanks for the help.

or cat inefficiency code P0420. Vibrant sells one you can tweak, it has 3 different orifice inserts IIRC.

HRTROB 07-31-2013 03:26 PM

How long were you running the spacer before the code first came up? I've been running an angled o2 sensor on my Borla UEL header for 2,000km now. 2 track days and a lot of highway running with the cruise control on, no CEL so far.

EZWood 07-31-2013 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRTROB (Post 1108760)
How long were you running the spacer before the code first came up? I've been running an angled o2 sensor on my Borla UEL header for 2,000km now. 2 track days and a lot of highway running with the cruise control on, no CEL so far.

It comes on pretty quick. Could you post a pic of how yours is mounted please?

HRTROB 07-31-2013 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EZWood (Post 1108804)
It comes on pretty quick. Could you post a pic of how yours is mounted please?

Here you go

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps8a13de1e.jpg

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/o...ps1036cdda.jpg

EZWood 07-31-2013 06:21 PM

That helps, but do you have a close up so I can determine the angle in relation to the exhaust flow?


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