odd comparison that I can't stop thinking about.
 

Obviously there are turbo kits that would decimate these gains, that's not what I'm looking to discuss here.

I don't know if I should post this. Maybe I shouldn't as it might cause flame war or arguement, but I can't stop thinking about this comparison.

Visconti's final production dyno of the Vortech SC kit.
*note that this car had an exhaust system on it, by Visconti's won admission. I don't know the details of that exhaust system nor how that would have effected the results.
Nameless's preliminary dyno for their unfinalized header and exhaust system. IIRC it was said that they are using 92 octane here.

Yes, the header and exhaust in johnbradley's post isn't giving the gains in the upper part of the rpm range. But when you consider the costs of the two, including the installation costs, what they will do to the warranty, and the fact that Nameless is working on an intake manifold I really think Nameless is going to be able to get better gains for much less money and they will certainly still have the NA predictability and feeling.

I'm just wondering if others in this FI forum are thinking about this, and if so, what are your thoughts?

I don't get the question

Combine the two and retune.


/thread

Honestly i want to see what N/A can do but the market is really slow so far, i was expecting cams/intake manifolds/head work and such by now. Forced induction took off on this car.

Still why not both? Vortech S/C+Namless IM+Header. Wont know what itll do till someone tries it.

you can't comapair results from two different dyno's man. I made 175whp on one dynojet in my area on the stock tune stock car... I made 165 on another dynojet in my area also on the stock tune and stock car. The latter was 250 miles after the former. They were even the same model dynojet.

You need to look at before and after on the same dyno or the comparison is about useless. What you can often do is look at what the same or another stock car made on that dyno stock then look at percentage gains.... if a dyno reads high the gains will be high but percentage should be the same from one to another.

I am all about the nameless parts, I would pay today for the longtube if Jason would take my money and I fully plan on doing a supercharger in the future so I don't have a horse in this race :)

53whp is a lot. I'm on the fence on staying na or going fi. I'm waiting for a set of proper na cams. Without those, the engine still has a VE problem. The header might be amazing for the dip but it doesn't do much for the top end. It still rolls off hard. The Visconti setup there is making power at 8k. It would prob make power at 9k.

so you think their intake manifold is going to make 50whp?

I for sure think it's gonna take cams to make NA power at 8K and above, hence why i plan on a SC at some point... but the fact is anything you do to improve ve NA is going to benefit a supercharger so.... win win!

not to mention that those nameless numbers are uncorrected

I think at this point, choosing a TC, SC or N/A build is more a matter of taste than anything else.

You want more total WHP, torque that will set you back in your seat instantly, a bit more involved install, etc.. you get a TC.

You want linear torque with lower peak numbers that feels more like NA but not break the bank, simpler install, you go SC.

You want nothing more than N/A you have two choices. You stay with bolt ons, keep your warranty for the most part and get modest gains. Or, you go full in with N/A bigger Cams, higher compression, higher redline, etc, etc.


When talking specifically at your comparison, it is what it is. Whomever goes SC is not looking (or at least shouldn't) for the highest WHP WTQ numbers. He's looking more for the specific feel and SC whine. When comparing money wise each option, there is a hard to measure and very personal factor called "fun factor". How much bang for the buck is each option completely depends on each person need/likes/dislikes.

If this were a K20A, I'd keep it all motor, but I'm going to be slapping the Innovative kit on mine. Perhaps include those headers to the fold.

@Calum, I've been asking this question since the Vortech kit was first released with "dynos". I got called a troll for it LOL.

As in other threads, we've noted that this engine does not follow conventional rules of tuning. There's probably a good reason why the "big dogs" are taking their time to develop their long-term products.

It's usually wise to keep an eye on the traditional top brands (Greddy, APEXi, HKS, etc), since their offerings are usually very well designed and tested.

Greddy is speccing the T518Z 10cm^2 turbo. It's a great little turbo that has been well developed on the Silvia and Evo platforms. They seem to reach full boost by 3500 and get 300-350 hp (with cams and supporting mods).

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...t000/T518Z.jpg

Nameless appears to have identified a serious bottleneck with their headers, so I'm really curious what exactly their product changes. Uncork the system and the power mods get much simpler.

For now, I'm content planning out all of the supporting mods. Powertrain and legit aero are usually last to the aftermarket party since they require real R&D vs digging in the parts bin.


Random question: How much more difficult is it to design cams for a VVT engine?

It should just be determining the optimal lift heights, angle differences. No additional design constraints for managing the pre-load double-gear or encased helical gear, right? And it's been done on the IS300 and late model Supra.

Am I the only one who thinks 53hp gain to the wheels is a lot in a 2700 pound car?