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-   -   Another V8 Swap (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111871)

DustinS 10-21-2016 11:57 AM

Another V8 Swap (Now 2jz/DCT)
 
With the impending release of the Vorshlag Swap kit, I have strayed from my Twin Charged FA20 Plans and started putting together my list to put in a crate LS3 over winter. Simple plans of CNC Heads and a decent Cam at first, with a turbo down the road. Eventually looking at 600-700whp (eventual plans had I kept the FA20 as well)

Current List:

TSP Turnkey Forged LS3 - Still deciding on which to go with.
Improved Racing Baffled Front Sump oil pan swap kit
Vorshlag Stg.0 Swap kit (Brackets/mounts, Driveshaft, Long Tube Headers)
Vorshlag Custom T56 Magnum XL
Vorshlag Tilton Master cylinder/Slave cylinder setup
MRS Can Device
ACT Clutch kit w/ Lightweight Flywheel
Oil Cooler set-up
Assorted Fuel Fittings
Greddy Evo GT 3" Exhaust
Vibrant 18" Resonators

Planning on starting to order things Monday. I have flip flopped on what parts I am wanting to go with quite a bit. Changed between the LS3 and a LS7 four or five times now. So I am giving myself a bit more time to really think it over. Though I am almost positive I won't deviate from the current plan/parts list at this point.

jasonojordan 10-21-2016 12:47 PM

I love a good mod thread just as much as the next guy but if this is the route you wanna go why not just start with a corvette and go from there?

DustinS 10-21-2016 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonojordan (Post 2780181)
I love a good mod thread just as much as the next guy but if this is the route you wanna go why not just start with a corvette and go from there?

Because I already own the FRS and I don't want a Corvette. I will be in the LS Swap for less money than I would the Twin Charge set-up and I will get almost the same powerband N/A. This also takes care of the poor transmission.

jasonojordan 10-21-2016 01:01 PM

I guess LS swaps are cheaper then I thought as I would expect it to cost more to swap and get working properly then it does to just start out with a ls vet.

DustinS 10-21-2016 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jasonojordan (Post 2780204)
I guess LS swaps are cheaper then I thought as I would expect it to cost more to swap and get working properly then it does to just start out with a ls vet.

Normally. Yes. I wanted a broad power band with 500-600whp on the FA20. My plans were an Element Tuning Built FA20, Cosworth Supercharger, and GTX4088R. Should have netted around 500whp with a wide powerband, if not more. So my FA20 plan cost ALOT. They actually came up just about even, but being able to sell all my current FA20 parts brings the end total down.

Tcoat 10-21-2016 01:18 PM

I was sort of looking forward to where you went with the FA20.

RedFR-s 10-21-2016 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2780220)
I was sort of looking forward to where you went with the FA20.

+1 the engineer in me really wanted to see the bi-charge set-up documented properly. But the realist was glad it wasn't my money going for it.

Better choice in the end for LS swap for reliability I think. Watching all these build threads for when my motor goes.

DustinS 10-21-2016 01:44 PM

I must admit I am torn as well, but the more I thought about it, the more difficult it was going to be to get it done completely right. There were a lot of variables that made the LS swap a much more solid choice.

Summerwolf 10-21-2016 01:51 PM

Why go fresh crate motor? You could be cheaper off with a bottom end since you're changing a lot of the surrounding parts anyways.

DustinS 10-21-2016 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwolf (Post 2780258)
Why go fresh crate motor? You could be cheaper off with a bottom end since you're changing a lot of the surrounding parts anyways.

From what I have priced out, It's about the same either way. If you have links/suggestions, please feel free to post.

Summerwolf 10-21-2016 02:32 PM

https://www.texas-speed.com/c-3188-a...d-engines.aspx


I considered a stroker from them and they were super helpful. Otherwise, tick performance, TEA, BTR.... the list of lsx performance providers is a mile long.

Teseo 10-21-2016 03:14 PM

I would like if you track every part price so i can figure out how much cost at the end. Considering this route as well when fa20 blow up. Also my concern are related to drive train, and the cost of custom job to fit it. Best wishes and good luck

Fenix 10-21-2016 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinS (Post 2780136)
With the impending release of the Vorshlag Swap kit, I have strayed from my Twin Charged FA20 Plans and started putting together my list to put in a crate LS3 over winter. Simple plans of CNC Heads and a decent Cam at first, with a turbo down the road. Eventually looking at 600-700whp (eventual plans had I kept the FA20 as well)

Current List:

GMPP Crate LS3 (430Hp version)
LS3 430 Controller kit
Fluidamper Crank Pulley
Canton Racing Front Sump Kit (Baffled Front sump oil pan to help with oiling issues)
Trick Flow Top End kit (Trick Flow CNC ported aftermarket casting heads, Dual valve spring, Ti retainers, stainless valves, 230/238 Cam)
COMP Cams Trunnion Upgrade Kit
Vorshlag Stg.0 Swap kit (Brackets/mounts, Driveshaft, Long Tube Headers)
Vorshlag Custom T56 Magnum XL
Vorshlag Tilton Master cylinder/Slave cylinder setup
MRS Can Device
ACT Clutch kit w/ Lightweight Flywheel
Oil Cooler set-up
Assorted Fuel Fittings
Greddy Evo GT 3" Exhaust
Vibrant 18" Resonators

Planning on starting to order things Monday. I have flip flopped on what parts I am wanting to go with quite a bit. Changed between the LS3 and a LS7 four or five times now. So I am giving myself a bit more time to really think it over. Though I am almost positive I won't deviate from the current plan/parts list at this point.

The cast aluminum block is decent. Consider a cast iron block for a small weight penalty. A built LS engine can achieve the numbers you wrote NA.

Summerwolf 10-21-2016 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenix (Post 2780331)
The cast aluminum block is decent. Consider a cast iron block for a small weight penalty. A built LS engine can achieve the numbers you wrote NA.



If he is keeping it strictly NA I don't think a cast iron block would be beneficial. The aluminum blocks are proven to add little weight to this chassis, and are durable enough for FI in the future.


600-700 NA is achievable, but will take more than you think to make that at the wheels and still be completely livable on the street.

JD001 10-21-2016 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2780220)
I was sort of looking forward to where you went with the FA20.

I went shopping with my FA20.

Tcoat 10-21-2016 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD001 (Post 2780372)
I went shopping with my FA20.

I generally take the rest of the car along as well but to each their own I guess.

cf6mech 10-21-2016 07:47 PM

Another just go buy a Corvette post....geez!......you either get it or you dont.....people who can do this swap are more than capable of buying a Vette....my answer to you guys is Baaaaaaaa!.......go Dustin go!.....glad you picked reliability over....Tick! Tick! Boom!

Fenix 10-21-2016 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2780397)
I generally take the rest of the car along as well but to each their own I guess.

Who needs the rest of the car? Go shopping without it. lol

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iwuZ6nfZJcs/hqdefault.jpg

6-Shift 10-21-2016 09:36 PM

Subscribed af

Tcoat 10-21-2016 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cf6mech (Post 2780536)
Another just go buy a Corvette post....geez!......you either get it or you dont.....people who can do this swap are more than capable of buying a Vette....my answer to you guys is Baaaaaaaa!.......go Dustin go!.....glad you picked reliability over....Tick! Tick! Boom!

I had hopes he could do it with out the boom though. The guys that do thing well don't get to blow things up (usually).
The swap, as cool as it could be, is sort of cheating.

cf6mech 10-22-2016 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2780600)
I had hopes he could do it with out the boom though. The guys that do thing well don't get to blow things up (usually).
The swap, as cool as it could be, is sort of cheating.

Yes you have a point about cheating, but to do a proper turbo build with all the fixings and to do it right your in swap territory money wise, which to me is a slam dunk as far as reliability. A buddy of mine who will have a build thread very soon is going to see how cheaply a swap is going to be, all he is waiting for is Vorshlag to sell him a stage 0 kit. So far he is off to a very good start and has already sold hjs FA20 with only 9k miles and got a swinging deal on a Vortec 5.3 built $800.00 and a T56 for $100.00, dont know how he swung that for the tranny but he did and its not a POS but a low mileage unit....so far he is a net gain on the swap,.....couple that with the new MRS Electronics gateway for can-bus instead of a standalone im extremely curious how cheap his swap is going to be......Im guessing under 10k because of the low mileage sale of the FA20. Its going to depend on what Vorshlag charges for the stage 0 kit.:threadjacked:

KR-S 10-22-2016 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2780397)
I generally take the rest of the car along as well but to each their own I guess.

Well I drive it so I don't have to lug it around everywhere I go... :iono:

Tcoat 10-22-2016 02:23 AM

I think we need to let Dustin have his thread back now.
Sorry Dustin that was an accidental derailment.
Look forward to following your new journey.

DustinS 10-22-2016 09:26 PM

It was a good derailment. Adding axles to the parts list as I had my driver side one start clicking super loud all of a sudden. Looks like Driveshaft Shop or Dealer is the only option for non-used axles. Or I roll the dice with a used one from eBay.

carbonBLUE 10-23-2016 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinS (Post 2781107)
It was a good derailment. Adding axles to the parts list as I had my driver side one start clicking super loud all of a sudden. Looks like Driveshaft Shop or Dealer is the only option for non-used axles. Or I roll the dice with a used one from eBay.

You can't go wrong with drive shaft shop, like seriously you shouldn't consider eBay over these unless your eBay item is coming from a 500 HP car at half the price

DustinS 10-23-2016 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carbonBLUE (Post 2781262)
You can't go wrong with drive shaft shop, like seriously you shouldn't consider eBay over these unless your eBay item is coming from a 500 HP car at half the price

The amount of failed Driveshaft Shop axles I have seen/heard about is concerning. Nonetheless I ordered a set.

I am going to look into the axles Spencer Fabrications is working on. Rated for 700hp and no question asked rebuilding upon failure. Currently requires sending in the stock axles to be rebuilt.

cf6mech 10-23-2016 08:58 PM

Havent heard of failed driveshaft shop half shafts.....interesting....mine have worked great.

carbonBLUE 10-23-2016 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cf6mech (Post 2781557)
Havent heard of failed driveshaft shop half shafts.....interesting....mine have worked great.

i was thinking the same thing, ive heard of their driveshafts failing and that was due to improper installation or wrong application

example

a 200 hp rally car can break a 500 hp driveshaft from the shear abuse rally puts on the car (if the driveshaft being the weakest link)

DustinS 10-27-2016 01:02 PM

Today is the day. Calling up Texas Speed and Performance after their lunch break to order the engine. Talked to them this morning and they can help me out getting the front sump pan, and baffle kit pre-installed before they send it.

Chosen the TSP 418 630hp Engine. In the end it seemed worth it for some more N/A power. Should take 4 weeks to get to me. Also ordering:
ACT Street Clutch w/ LW Flywheel.
Fuel Fittings to adapt the two stock metal lines into one single -6 AN hose.
Steam Port Adapter.

(Shout out to @wutsaiu for his parts list that has part number for fuel set-up and steam port adapter)

Summerwolf 10-27-2016 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustinS (Post 2784374)
Today is the day. Calling up Texas Speed and Performance after their lunch break to order the engine. Talked to them this morning and they can help me out getting the front sump pan, and baffle kit pre-installed before they send it.

Chosen the TSP 418 630hp Engine. In the end it seemed worth it for some more N/A power. Should take 4 weeks to get to me. Also ordering:
ACT Street Clutch w/ LW Flywheel.
Fuel Fittings to adapt the two stock metal lines into one single -6 AN hose.
Steam Port Adapter.

(Shout out to @wutsaiu for his parts list that has part number for fuel set-up and steam port adapter)



Decided against the factory crate motor then :w00t:


I hope TSP treats you like every dealing I had with them!

ILLSMOQ 10-27-2016 03:04 PM

Nice!!! I'll be a few months behind you on a pretty much the same set up. I ordered a 2017 BRZ last week and I'm talking to Texas Speed about that same engine.

DustinS 10-27-2016 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLSMOQ (Post 2784475)
Nice!!! I'll be a few months behind you on a pretty much the same set up. I ordered a 2017 BRZ last week and I'm talking to Texas Speed about that same engine.

It's good to note they can include the front sump for a good chunk of change cheaper than what can be bought separate. You can also request the improved racing baffling. I ordered it with the stock valve covers so I could mount the coils on them just in case.

They said it would be about a four week wait. Which doesn't bother me as I don't expect the Vorshlag kit to be released for a couple more months and I know there is about a 2 week wait for the transmission. Currently waiting on my winter car to get out of the shop so I can start tearing down the FRS and get the FA20 parts sold.

DustinS 10-28-2016 10:13 AM

Trying to figure out if I want to spend the money on an aftermarket fuel rail. Looking at the Radium Engineering Kit with a fuel pressure gauge.

http://www.radiumauto.com/Assets/Pro...s/LS_Rails.jpg

http://www.radiumauto.com/Assets/Pro...ges/gauge1.jpg

http://www.radiumauto.com/Assets/Pro...ges/gauge3.jpg

ILLSMOQ 10-28-2016 10:32 AM

I like the look of them. The red fuel rails on this car looks pretty cool http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111575. I think tucking all the wires and cleaning up the hoses would look even better.

As far as adding the gauge in the rail, is it really going to be useful? It's adding another location for a possible fuel leak. You can't see it when you're driving. For testing you'll probably be using a real gauge anyway?

Speaking of fuel, what's the plan for a fuel system?

DustinS 10-28-2016 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLSMOQ (Post 2784928)
I like the look of them. The red fuel rails on this car looks pretty cool http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111575. I think tucking all the wires and cleaning up the hoses would look even better.

As far as adding the gauge in the rail, is it really going to be useful? It's adding another location for a possible fuel leak. You can't see it when you're driving. For testing you'll probably be using a real gauge anyway?

Speaking of fuel, what's the plan for a fuel system?

Seeing as my car is blue and I am doing my best to change everything to blue (red stitching is the only thing red left). Blue or Black would be preferred. I do plan on trying to do a semi-wire tuck to make it look as clean as possible.

Fuel Pressure Gauge in the Rail was more for piece of mind and monitoring while it is on the dyno. I imagine I will upgrade the fuel system down the line. I am waiting to see what radium is about to release for the Twins as well as Visconti. So I will use it set the regulator.

I have a DW300C Pump already installed. I'll be running the same sort of set-up as @wutsaiu and merge the two factory fuel lines down to one line to feed the engine. Plan is the move the merge down further out of sight and run a -6 AN Hose up to the Fuel rail.

I am also pricing out what running a -6 AN line straight from the tank to the engine would cost. Though I would only really want stainless braided line under the car just in case.

Brain Storming:
Russells Push on EFI -6 AN Adapter on Fuel Pump Assembly -> -6 AN Stainless Line -> Russells -6 AN Fuel Filter -> -6 AN Stainless Line -> Hose Adapter at the back of engine bay switch from Braided Stainless to Braided Nylon -> Russell Push On EFI -6 AN adapter on fuel rail.

Summerwolf 10-28-2016 11:26 AM

https://www.hinsonsupercars.com/p-16...6027b-kit.aspx

ILLSMOQ 10-28-2016 12:27 PM

I agree with you on the blue or black on a blue car...I'd lean toward everything black. I'm not crazy about the red stitching either(almost went with a new 86 instead because of it)...but that's a lot of stuff to change, I'm hoping the stitching grows on me.

Yeah I can see it useful for dyno sessions...as long as it's a high quality gauge...some of those things are cheaply made.

I use this for making fuel and brake lines. http://www.surrauto.com/documents/Ul...ine-Tubing.pdf

They offer metal line up to 3/8" (-6 AN) It bends easy and their flaring tool works perfectly.
http://www.surrauto.com

You can't buy directly from them though. I buy their stuff through Carquest auto parts.

DustinS 10-28-2016 03:30 PM

I went ahead and settled on just sticking with factory rails at this point. Clutch kit and fuel system fittings are ordered. Did the factory lines into a single Vibrant -6 AN line. Greddy Evo GT 3" Exhaust also ordered.

ILLSMOQ 10-28-2016 05:21 PM

Probably a good idea...you can always change them later.

Why did you pick this exhaust? Looks good. Kind of uncharted territory though with a V8. Looks similar to the exhaust layout RS-R used on their car. One thing that drives me nuts is exhaust drone. Hopefully it sounds awesome and doesn't drone. Only company I've seen that's figured out how to eliminate exhaust drone is Corsa. I may try to modify one of their systems to fit the BRZ depending on your experience with this Greddy system.

DustinS 10-28-2016 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILLSMOQ (Post 2785226)
Probably a good idea...you can always change them later.

Why did you pick this exhaust? Looks good. Kind of uncharted territory though with a V8. Looks similar to the exhaust layout RS-R used on their car. One thing that drives me nuts is exhaust drone. Hopefully it sounds awesome and doesn't drone. Only company I've seen that's figured out how to eliminate exhaust drone is Corsa. I may try to modify one of their systems to fit the BRZ depending on your experience with this Greddy system.

I wanted a good quality full 3" Dual exit exhaust that fit well and wasn't overly expensive. This will work well with my turbo FA20 until I can rip it out and replace it with the LS. It will also allow some fine tuning of the exhaust as the mufflers aren't too large or too small, so I can use different resonators/smaller muffler to get the sound I want/like. I also wanted something I could weld on dual tips to make a quad tip exhaust eventually.

I need something to get rid of the terrible drone from my current custom 2.5" which is pretty much a resonated straight pipe. Sounds amazing outside, but too loud inside.


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