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In this post, someone said "Track Day Oil Temp Problem Persists" so that assumes the following point: The new twin overheats the oil. This so far has no definitive proof. Even the original twins without oil coolers seem to work fine. Overheat would mean the oil runs too thin and causes internal damage due to lack of lubrication. If the oil is designed for 300F operating temps, then assuming the grade is correct, should provide as designed lubrication. Therefore the point is moot. No one is saying opening the hood is bad. That's a red herring point. |
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Tl;dr we’ll just have to wait and see
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Telling someone to not run oil cooling for a tracked FA20 is like telling someone they don't need water to run a marathon.
I've seen too many people scattered across the net with their "new" 100k+ mile 13s blow engines because "they were driving pretty hard" with friends. Must be slapping that oil cooler into the next gen for no reason right? |
Because it is not a problem
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I’ll happily stick to my 230-240 temps. |
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Subaru / Toyota designed that exactly for what it needs to be to survive the basic elements without excessive over costing. Does that mean extra oil cooling isn't good? Nope. Different parameters of design. They've done just what is needed for the car to be sold as OEM without shooting themselves in the foot for reliability for their market. We're totally making a mountain out of a mole hill here. You're gonna track this thing in 45-50 deg C weather in endurance racing? Go ahead, slap on a cooler but it'd be foolish to assume this is the design criteria from the factory. |
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It has been long discussed in oil threads that the biggest problem with our platform was cavitation and the fact that oil pressures did not rise linearly to the increase of RPM at high oil temps - in fact they plummeted near the top - low oil pressures at extremely high rpm = bad. The link you post does not focus on this information and therefore does not relate to the issue at hand, as it is not the hot oil temperatures that are causing this, but rather the poor oiling design within the engine. Hot oil is not the issue... cavitation is. Currently no one knows (I think?) about the changes in the new engine in terms of oil flow, and I would be EXTREMELY curious to see if this problem was resolved. But I fear not, as this has not been addressed in any of the detailed talks about the new gen. Either way, we'll see when people start slapping pressure gauges on and analyzing. People like ZDan and many others, including me, run hot oil temps on low viscosity oils just fine and have been doing it for tens of thousands of miles without issues. In some ways, that goes to show that EVEN with such a (major IMO) problem as oil cavitation at such hot oil temperatures, our platform is able to handle it quite well and reliably for most folks. Also, stating that the FA20/FA24 tolerances, oil pump, etc., were not designed to withstand high oil temps sounds like a FAT guess at something you don't know. Our platform rises in temps quickly when pushed, I am sure the engineers did not pass that down during testing. We are not talking about temps of 300F+ anyways, it was simply stated that modern synthetic oil can handle these temps without a problem. No one is saying you shouldn't get an oil cooler especially if you are taking this car out to the track a lot. But I do believe that an oil cooler is not REQUIRED for the majority of drivers for this platform - hence why it was not used in Gen2 for the obvious reason being additional cost. |
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If sufficient oil isn't getting to the bearings due to how the oil flow through the engine is designed, you're as likely to have problems whether you have an oil cooler or not (again, assuming appropriate oil viscosity for operational temps). Tracked FT86s *with* oil coolers have had oil-starvation related engine failures. If a tracked car *without* a cooler has an oil-related failure, that does not necessarily mean the oil is "too hot". |
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Every Year, More Athletes Are Injured By Hyponatremia than Dehydration https://www.mdalert.com/article/ever...an-dehydration The "conventional wisdom" is not always right... Quote:
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My S2k has the same OEM sandwich plate using the coolant to WARM up the oil faster. Does it help cool? Meh. More like shave the peak off maybe. "Bruh, I thought heat was the problem!" As any engineer would tell you, they design for operating temps, viscosity at said temps and properties of the surfaces in proximity. |
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Isn’t the takeaway here that the new one, ceteris paribus (and I recognize that’s a BIG assumption), should have fewer oil temp issues than the previous gen? I’m acknowledging issues like oil starvation popped plenty of FA20 motors too, but 15 minutes in the FI forum or a couple old Savagegeese vids sure show a lot of temp issues with the 1st gen car and this seems like a design aimed at least partially towards mitigating that. |
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