Coilover options Bilstein/KW/Öhlins/RCE/Tein
 

Hi,

If I lived in the US, my options would be simpler, but the price differences are quite big on some products (eur/usd rate isn't helping either) Based on the prices that I would get the parts for, what would be your choice?

My car is a daily driver, but I'd like to do atleast 6-8 trackdays a year and am willing to compromise on the street rather than track, I guess. Winter and salt are very present so that's an issue as well, allthough I suppose I could swap to OE setup for the winter.

My first choice would be Öhlins R&T MI20, but it seems to be out of stock everywhere in Europe and seems to be replaced with the MP20 kit, which is without camberplates and strange spring rates. If ANYONE has a line on a set of the 'old' MI20's in Europe, please let me know!

So my current options are (I realise they price/quality difference is quite wide on these...)

These are the coilovers I can get from Europe locally (seems to be quite a big price difference when looking at US prices)

Bilstein B16
around €1,500 / $1,650

KW V3
€1,700 / $1,870

KW Clubsport 2-way
€1,800 / $1.980

Öhlins Road & Track MP20 (without camber plates 4kg/mm front and 3kg/mm rear springs)
€2,200 / $2,420

Now two kits that could be ordered from the US, that I can't get from Europe:

Öhlins Road & Track MI20 with camber plates and 6kg/mm F&R about
about €3,700 shipped and customs/VAT paid / $4,070

RCE Tarmac 2's without camber plates
about €2,900 / $3,200 shipped and duty paid,
about €3,500 / $3,850 with camber plates

And from Japan, I could get:
Tein SRC's for around €3,500 / $3,850 with customs duty and VAT paid

Based on those what would you suggest? I'm a beginner with everything that has to do with suspension, so I probably won't be very good at setting up the suspension (thus, afraid of the 2 way adjustable options somewhat...) I should mention that I'd like to stay under €3,000, so the Öhlins from the US and Tein from Japan would be difficult, probably would have to be postponed by one year...

Well if I were you I would scratch the Bilstein's off your list as they are a progressive spring rate. I am sure they would be great for street use but if you want more performance at the track go with one of the other options.

I sometimes wonder as to why Ohlins decided to discontinue MI20 with firmer rates when on most forums those are advised and more commonly wished for over MP20 kit. What happened with demand driving offer/voting with wallet? :/

Haha...

I just went through the same thoughts. You might want to read the answers to my questions:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98951

What kind and what size tires do you plan on using for track days?


- Andrew

I think kW club sport or tein SRC? Ohlins RT is good for DD and track but not focus on track and their clubsport is about more than 6k? I think.
BTW, why clubsport in Europe is soooo cheap....


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Stock size Advan AD08.
After that thinking about gettng 17x8 wheels, so will likely go with 225 AD08R's or similar.

Tell me about it... If the MI20's were available in Europe for a decent price, I'd just buy those and call it a day! I could live without the camber plates on the MP20's but those spring rates just seem wierd... Maybe they work somehow by some miracle? Would love to find out, if anyone has them on allready...

Thanks, just read through the thread and subscribed. Not sure the ST's are for me since over here we do get alot of snow and salt in the winter. Allthough I guess I could always remove the coils for winter. Interested to see how it works out for you, though! Maybe I'll change my mind :)

My thinking is that dampers need replacing or rebuilding anyway. With a price of 1000€ (compared to 2600 for Clubsports), I can replace them more often.

That said, the winters are not that hard in northern Germany and I have a second old car to drive when there is salt and snow on the roads. For you stainless steel might make more sense.

I think KW V3 or KW Clubsports would treat you well.

Over here the Clubsports don't have a warranty, which is unfortunate. I'm not sure if that's true in Europe. They're slightly firmer spring rates would be nicer on the track, but the V3s still do pretty well. Also, you may not need camber plates depending on how much camber you plan on running since you can get a good amount with the slotted lower mount of the KW's.

The old Ohlins would do well too, but I wouldn't bother with the new ones.

- Andrew

You might also look at SACHS Performance coilovers. Much easier to get a set in Europe than the U.S.

They're similar to the B16s in that they're a single-adjustable coilover with an inverted monotube shock up front and progressive rates in the rear. Of course people will say that progressive rates aren't as ideal for tracking a car, but if you're only doing 6-8 track days a year it's definitely more of a daily driver that's occasionally tracked. The progressive rear rates may make for a more comfortable ride while daily driving, and should still handle just fine (especially at your experience level) on track. They're just slightly softer sprung than the new V3 rates, so not a bad compromise for a DD that sees some track time throughout the year.

I'm in pretty much the exact same situation in terms of daily driving and amount of track time in a given year, and ended up with the SACHS coilovers (although working for their parent company and getting a special price did help sway my decision). haha But from an objective standpoint, as I'm not here acting officially on behalf of the company (just an enthusiast who happens to work there), it's a very well respected company that's know for making great products. I'd say it's at least worth looking into.

Sachs^^










^^^^^^

Thanks! Looks like the European Clubsports are just V3's with different spring rates (6k front, 7k rear, so EU Clubsport = US V3, I belive?)

I would love to get T2's with higher spring rates, but the 20+% customs duties on the price + shipping kind of kill the deal :(

I have also e-mailed several Öhlins distribitors (including their Nürburgring center) to see if maybe they have one set left collecting dust somewhere, fingers crossed :sigh:

I will definitely keep an eye on your solution! I saw you also contacted Öhlins, let me know what they tell you regarding the new R&T kit.


They do look nice, from the little I've seen, but they are amazingly hard to find anywhere. Also as someone said before, don't want to be a guinea pig for those, would rather use something proven/tested. Interested to see what you think of them, once installed, though.

The US KW V3s are softer now (they changed them a few years back), so I think US and EU V3s are the same. Good luck!

- Andrew

There are some other people out there that have them, but not many. There's a SACHS demo car in Japan with a blog covering a lot of what they've done, but I'm having trouble finding the page. It's also all in Japanese, and the translation is not great.

There's also this video, same problem with the translation though.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRJLzmwFF-Y"]SACHS RS1 PERFORMANCE COILOVER THE ROADSHOW for 86,and BRZ - YouTube[/ame]


I am very excited to see how they are once I get them on though. My RCE Camber Plates should be waiting for me when I get home today! Now I just need the snow to go away. lol

In terms of finding them, I've seen several European sites with them for sale.

Best way is to contact ZF Race Engineering directly though. Or go through one of their sales partners.

http://www.zf.com/corporate/en_de/pr...tner/index.jsp

Apart from the spring rates, what I don't like about the Sachs and Bilstein is the stock spring size. Could probably lead to clearance issues if using wide wheels?

Thanks for that info. It was the same in Europe (changed a few years back too). Seems like a lot of US websites need updating. Most list the V3 as 6/7 spring rates.

As far as I know, the only differences between V3 and Clubsports (2 way), are the spring rates. And warranty (5 years vs. no warranty at all!). If the dampers are valved different or not would be interesting.

Clubsport is sold with and without top mounts in Europe. Without they are almost the same price as V3 (V3 only about 100€/$ cheaper).

Yes I was in contact with Nurburgring center too, I doubt they are able to dig any MI20 up. But I think it's great more "complain". MI20 would still be my first choice if available.

Their product manager is supposed to write back to me after the new year as to why and what the benefits of the MP20 is. I'll keep you guys updated.

As for my ST XTA project, don't hold you breath. It will be somewhat slow progress as I am starting a new job, so my january/february will be focused on that. At the moment I am gathering the parts needed, but I don't know when I will have time to do an install, or if I'm even going to do it myself.

I am now also looking into AST 4150 / 5100. Hadn't heard anything about them before, but they seem like a good option? I could get basically any spring rate I want, they're high quality and with a competitive price.
I've read @Captain Snooze reviews on the AST 5200 (double adjustable) and @Jive Turkey on the AST 4150 and they sound great. Anyone else have any reviews?
Any reasons NOT to get them? Has anyone had negative experiences with them?

They don't answer emails. which pissed me off quite a bit.
But there are supposed to be very good ( the 5xxx series )

I was considering JRZ RS Pro until I found that Nitron was looking for a developpement car. I will bring them my car in the UK in February for them to test on it and they ll give me a set of 3 way for half the price with free mounting, geo and corner balance :p

I used Nitron 1 way on my Lotus with super hard springs. Ride comfort was extremely good.
Adjustment range is wide. I found high speed compression to be too high. But still amazing for the price.

I would not buy suspensions without fully custom settings for each client.

AST and JRZ offer digressive valving, Nitron does not.

(I'm in France)

I had the same issue with ast. They didn't respond to emails so I was like screw you.

I ended up with Öhlins and they have exceeded my expectations for comfort.

I went for 70N/mm rear springs.

I respect the AST would have been better for track with firmer springs.

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I asked Ohlins France about the TTX, they said they don't make it for the 86.

I asked Ohlins Sweden, they said to contact Ohlins France........

The guys at JRZ are answering very fast with a lot of details.

Quantum suspensions were pretty cool too. Sadly the 86 line is not ready.


Ohlins is a good and easy choice for the road at a fair price.

In Australia MCA is the only option most people consider. Depending on what the shipping costs would be; thats what I'd go for.

Again @brzest, we had the same thought.

I have the exact opposite impression. They answered my questios fast, detailed and friendly.

My only worries was the odd spring rates they offer as standard: 7 kg/mm front, 4 kg/mm rear. That and the problems with getting stuff road legal in Germany.

@MaximeT, Öhlins now only offer a very soft setup for the GT86. 4 kg/mm front and 3 kg/mm rear.

I managed to bag the last mi20 kit so was lucky. I was tempted by all these different high end brands but its hard to part with such large sums of cash with untested gear.

I think your an engineer so you're probably able to tune your own suspention but for me it came down to the fact that the ohlins had been tested and work well for most people.

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Yes I should have said Ohlins "was" a good choice.

Setting one way is easy. Setting more take a bit more knowledge.

If you're a good enough driver, you can setup your car by asking questions on the forum.

You can always learn suspensions setup in IRacing.

I wasn't too bothered to setup 2 ways (almost got some ast5200) but as I'm not chasing the last tenths I went with the ohlins. They are super comfy too.

No huge amounts of bump travel though. Im on 400lb rear springs and I calculated 23mm front and 15mm rear bumpstop free travel. The bumpstops are quite soft though. AST never got back to me so I have no idea if they are better.

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