Clutch Pedal
 

Well not a good start to the day!
Started off to work this morning, got the car into first gear. Went about 15ft and went to put the car in neutral to coast down the driveway and the clutch pedal goes to the floor and stays there :cry:
Driving yesterday there was no indication of any issue with the clutch so this morning really caught me by surprise.
Bad news was the problem with the pedal, good news was it had the decency to go in the driveway and not out on the road.
Any thoughts as to how big of a problem I have? The pedal needed to be moved off the floor by hand.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.


:cheers:

Did you check your fluid?

I am at work now but will check when I get home. I am basically trying to get a feel for the severity of my problem. I am just hoping that the clutch itself is not what is causing the problem.
Thanks for your input


:cheers:

Bleed out, maybe got air in the line

Have you done any mods to the pedal or clutch?
Air, low fluid, etc should have given some sort of indication before complete failure unless it happened overnight while the car sat.

Gotta do the simple checks; fluid, could be air, bleed the line etc.

no mods to the clutch or pedal, like I said operation seemed fine yesterday and this morning not:iono:

Absolutely! Just trying to get suggestions as to what it may or may not be! Not really fair to anyone replying but Just trying to get a feel for what may be going on!
Thanks.

On a side note are the master and slave cylinders accessible to check and/or replace?

Yes, Right on top of the transmission is the slave..Master is right on the firewall.

Thanks for the reply!


:cheers:

For what it is worth page 134

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...4&d=1339384129

If the clutch pedal stays on the floor it sounds like your throw out bearing or master cylinder has failed.

Tcoat,


Thanks for the extra info! You can never have to much!


:w00t:


:cheers:

This is not what I want to hear!
:confused0068:


Thanks for the input though!
Hopefully we don't need to go down that road!


:cheers:

LOL I actually wrote that in my first reply and then second guessed myself and deleted it.

That is a well know issue especially with the 13s.

Okay, if the throw out bearing is bad would there not be the tell tale signs of squealing or whining? It just seems odd that a bearing that was perfectly quiet yesterday would suddenly up and sh!t the bed this morning! Am I wrong in this assumption? Any other time I have dealt with throw out failure you knew something was up and about to go.


:cheers:

Update: checked the engine bay and found indication of some fluid leaking from the slave cylinder. I guess replacing this part is the logical place to start!:)


I found a slave cylinder for ~ $42 free shipping. Sound reasonable?


:cheers:

Sorry for the delayed reply but if not too late this may be a good time to upgrade.
This has been very popular so far:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77390

Haha... DO IT!


Oh, and here's the sequence of events.

1. Slave cyl shits the bed.
2. ALL the fluid leaks out of the reservoir.
3. Only then does the air get in.

Said it somewhere else recently - Air does not magically appear in the system.


The pedal stays down because, without the return force from the hydraulics, the helper spring keeps it there.

Tcoat,

Funny you should mention that. I am typically an impatient kinda of guy and a couple of weeks ago I did the TRD springs and a set of Bilsteins and what should have been a one day adventure turned into a week due to having to get new sway bar end links. So needless to say I didn't want to wait another week for the slave cylinder. I was browsing the forum for info and did come across the DYI by Ultramaroon. A quick check and the local Autozone has the slave cylinder in stock so today I am off to pick it up. The only issue I have is the "crush" washer availability. I know the Napa store has some copper washers but size wise I'm not sure if they have them in stock. If I have to wait days to get some washers I'll be pretty bummed. There is nothing worse than this car just sitting in the driveway:(


Thanks for your helpful replies :w00t:


:cheers:

Ultramaroon,


In progress, see post above!
Thanks for the DYI write up.
Like I said the only issue appears to be getting the right size crush washers fronm a local store without having to special order them.


:cheers:

If you anneal the old crush washer they'll work like new again. Just hang them on a wire, a coat hanger works well, heat them to glowing red, and let them cool in the air. I've installed 3000 psi diesel injectors like this, never had a leak.

^^truth^^

...at least until they're paper thin. They're 10 mm - identical to the brake caliper gaskets.

After thinking about the whole deal I decided to just have the car towed to the dealer. The slave cylinder should not just go and want them to get to a root cause .


Well just got the call from the dealer and it appears the clutch fork is broken:eyebulge::mad0260:.

Like I said before no noises or other indications of impending failure. Once again the FRS disappoints! The highs of this car are getting overrun by the nagging concerns about quality. Fuel pump chirping, tail light condensation and now this. Not a great track record for a two year old car.


Now I have to have the Toyota rep look at the car and make a determination as to whether this will be covered under warranty or not:mad0259:


The never ending Scion saga

Imho you exagerated it a bit. My line of thinking is like:
1) it's very cheap and good enough car in it's class and due that sold in high numbers, because of that community behind it became rather big. Due nature of forums, negative experience/problems are way more often reported/posted, then problem-free usage, which subjectively is 'as expected'. No wonder that all together may make it look like way worse then it is in how often really there are problems/broken parts/replacement frequency. For later one needs to access to lot of statistical data from dealers/serviceshops/manufacturer, that probably no average joe customer will never get. I'd rather bet that this car is 'normal', breaks as often as average, has acceptable share and frequency of problems as average. At least didn't saw much very major and serious recalls, and few reported problems didn't overshadow generic positive rating in my eyes.
2) purpose of this car/class, just like most other performance/sports cars, assumes also much heavier abuse then some only daily driven family hauler. I see it as upping chances to break something at least by few times. I don't expect WRX/STI/Evo/Type-Rs/M bmw-s and so on to last very long either. Most probably forums for those are full of threads about their specific problems too.

Chirping fuel pump no exaggeration, replaced twice. Toyota gives up and says this is "normal". Wish the chirping was present when I first bought the car. It may have influenced my decision
Tail light condensation, poor design or seal materials. Again no exaggeration.
Overall in the scheme of things it is "cheap" but that doesn't excuse the design or material issues. A $13,000 car I expect to have issues, mid 20's not so much!
Just venting my frustration at this point!


:cheers:

Meh. Supercar owners consider their breakdown frequency a badge of honor. At least the Toyobaru isn't very expensive to repair.

I just realized, the hydraulic fluid oozed out after you pumped the slave piston out of the cylinder.

Once the fork broke, the only thing holding in the slave piston was the dust boot. It would be easy to eject the piston in a few pumps of the pedal.

Yeah, pretty much sums it up! :)


Talked with the service manager after the advisor said it may be a week or two to finish the repair.:confused0068:
The advisor also suggested that the Toyota rep would need to determine if warranty would cover the repair.


Everyone hold onto your hats!


I had the service manager say all was covered by warranty, he had the parts on order and they would be in on Monday, car put back together soon after. Not a week or two!:thumbup:


:cheers:

Cliff notes version: throw out bearing bound up, no move, fork move, fork meet bearing, fork break, piston popped, fluid leaks, pedal goes to floor and no come back! :)


:cheers:

Best wishes for a speedy recovery. :cheers:

Well thanks for the wish but there is no speedy recovery in the plans!:cry:
Went to pick up the car last night after being told that they had test driven the car and it was ready. 10 seconds in the car and there is a bad sound. Clutch out low rpms and there is a "grinding" noise and vibration. A little higher rpms and the noise seemed to go away. I didn't even get it out of the dealer parking lot:confused0068:
Service advisor: they thought it was the license plate, heatshield against header or tire noise:paddle:


Got the mechanic and took him for a ride and the noise, vibration was heard. He says they didn't know what the car sounded like originally! This was definitely not even close to a "normal" noise.
To make a long story even longer the tranny is being pulled back out today and will be torn apart to see what is up!
The saga continues!




:cheers:

Staying tuned. I'm surprised to hear that. I wonder if they didn't forget to tighten, or improperly installed something. It's a stretch, though. Not that much going on there. I hope they discover something before disassembling the transmission.

Figured out what the problem was yet? I had the same thing happen to me when I still had my 94 300zx. Ended up having to replace my slave cylinder.

Well it is 5:00 PM here and have not received a call from the dealer yet. Was kinda hoping that there was an installation problem or oversight but being as the were going to pull the car apart today and I have not heard anything my pessimistic side is taking over!
Will post when I hear from the dealer.


:cheers:

The latest and greatest! The noise and vibration? Transmission. Had the Toyota engineer in, listened to the transmission and had them just pull it and order a new one. Asked what they had found and was told they didn't even open it up just said to replace it!
The list of new components:
1.slave cylinder
2. clutch fork
3. pivot pin
4. throw out bearing
5. transmission nose cone that throw out bearing rides on
6. pressure plate
7. last but not least the transmission itself.

Go to pick up the car tonight as the advisor said everything is installed and they are checking fluids and do a test drive. When I arrive the advisor says that the car isn't ready. We go into the shop and the mechanic says all the new parts have been installed but they can't get the clutch to engage! :mad0259: They will need to pull it apart again and see what'\s going on.
You can't make this sh*t up. :eyebulge:
This needless to say is not giving me a warm fuzzy feeling. How can you not be able to install this stuff with the tools and knowledge that mechanics should have! This isn't brain surgery.
It's all covered under warranty but I have an uneasy feeling about the repair itself


Hopefully by tomorrow they will have it running.


Stay tuned for more! :)

See post above! :)

Now I'm just hitting the F5 button repeatedly.

Thanks Obama!

Update
Dealer:
we need to put the old pressure plate back in as we determined that we ordered or received the wrong part, yet put it in the car none the less. Don't worry Rick the clutch disk and pressure plate were fine, yet we ordered a new one just because. The car should be ready by Friday PM or Saturday. Fine just get the GD car running again:mad0260:
Friday 6:52 PM voicemail from dealer. We still can't get the clutch to engage (what the F have you done to my car?)


We are going to order a new pressure plate but there are none in stock on the east coast so it will be Tuesday or Wednesday before the part even arrives. :confused0068: We are then going to take the car apart for the fourth time and if we fail as miserably as we have on the previous three attempts we will need to call in Toyota techs.


There is now absolutely zero confidence that these "TECHS" can get their collective heads out of their asses and actually put this car back together again.
Have you ever gotten so pissed off that you are at a loss for words. Well I'm there. I was going to call them tomorrow but I really don't know what to say to them.:mad0260:
All new parts and they can't even re-assemble the car so that it works, absolutely un effin believable:sigh: