I know the automatic has paddles, but.....
 

Every once in awhile I like to play with the sequential style shifter. There doesn't seem to be an issue here until you realize that for some unexplained reason the shift pattern is backwards? Why would a manufacturer such as Toyota or Subaru do this? Both companies have Motorsport ties that reach back decades. I am fairly confident that someone on the development team knows pulling the shifter towards the driver should be an upshift and pushing it towards the dash should be a downshift. This makes sense because under braking it is easier to push the shifter forward to downshift and exactly the opposite is true under acceleration.

I say that to ask this. Does anyone out there know if we can just pull whatever plug the sequential stick engages and reverse it, or would that cause the ECU to throw a raging tantrum?

Just curious. Thanks to anyone that might have some input on reversing the shift direction.

Sean

There is no "right" way to design it. It varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. If I remember correctly the Porsche PDK system is also forward to upshift.

It could be done if you reprogrammed one or more of the control modules. Or maybe if you repinned an electrical connector.

Why is it like that in the first place? It's probably because that's what their customer clinics told them the expected buyer wanted. Or maybe they didn't bother doing any evaluations. Nobody actually uses manual shifting functions on a regular basis. They try it out a couple times and then forget about it.

Yep, PDK is backwards when it comes to this as well.

I know it comes down to the manufacturers choice. But what I don't understand is why manufacturers with massive racing backgrounds choose to do this backwards. It's odd to me.

That would be a cool mod. Pull to shift up, the way it should be.

I will be looking into the possibilities.

I guess whether its an easy change depends if the gear selector is switch activated or mechanical (inside the tranny?).
If switches, I would presume you could swap the switches or wiring from front to back which would reverse the shift direction to the correct way.

Hoping for the switch option.

Personal preference.

Sorry, its not personal preference when every sequential box put into any modern era race car is upshift towards the driver and downshift towards the dash. If you personaly like it the other way around, that's cool. But, it is backwards when compared to track specific sequential boxes.

it would be easiest to change the wiring at the ECU (or junction block), rather than make physical changes to the switches.

Cleanest way would be to have two mini jumper harnesses.

One that swaps the wires, and one that reverts it back to stock.

The manual-mode autos aren't set up for people who have spent time using a proper sequential manual, they are made for people who drive automatics (no offense intended). And from a certain viewpoint it does kind of make sense; push forward to go faster, pull back to go slower is kind of intuitive. That said, I completely agree with you.

Wake up. This isn't a race car. They are trying to maximize sales through good impressions from "regular" people taking test drives, not please internet car forums. Either they don't give a crap or they have data from customers saying that's the preference.

The de'facto standard is 'backwards', sadly. I haven't seen any semi-auto box that had the stick the 'right' way. It's a pain in the butt. Looked into swapping them on my VW DSG, but the wiring down there is just overengineered to the nth degree. I skipped it and just live with it for now.

Yep, it's backwards. It just is. : )

This means feedback is going the wrong way. If some poor driver depends on the inertia of his arm to shift, and if pushing forward downshifts, then a hard brake will cause a downshift, then the extra engine drag will cause a second downshift, then the over-revs will cause a third downshift (should the ECU allow it). Brake hard and this positive feedback leaves you in first.

No, they did it right. By making the driver fight against inertia (thus making inertia a negative feedback mechanism) the driver must force the downshift when braking hard. The lawyers might also like the idea of an object flying forward during a hard brake not causing a downshift.

Plus it matches the shifting in my Tundra, so I didn't need to learn anything new. :bonk:

That would be cool if it was just like the initial d arcade game!

The cleanest way would be to unpin and swap the wires, either at the ECU, or another plug upstream. Unfortunately that's probably gonna require wiring diagrams or exploratory surgery. I'd sart by lifting the bezel around the shifter and looking for switches.

The shift pattern doesn't seem backwards to me. It's an auto trans with paddles not a race sequential. It follows the typical gross market pattern.

Good luck on switching it over. Hopefully it's easier than it sounds.

I hope its just a matter of switching the plugs and I totally understand why it doesn't bother many people. It bugs me because I have been involved with Motorsport Professionally for many years and it just feels completely wrong in my case. I shall work to fix it for myself and if I can figure it out I'll tell folks here just in case there are more out there that feel it's backwards.

Sean

M

All bmws (auto, smg, DCT) have it the "right way". Mazda 3's have it "the right way". Mitsubishi has it the "right way" on their DCTs but not the regural autos...wierdly. Also Maserati Quattroporte has it the right way as well.

I belive there are some European brands that got it properly too.

So people do have the right to expect this very sporty subayota to come with "proper" shift pattern of the auto.

P.S.

Pretty much all cars from FIAT SPA come with autos the "proper way". Check out the fiat 500 and alfa romeo gullietta.
And even the Dodge dart too!

Yes, but race drivers are usually not complete morons (as well as having the g forces to deal with), which unfortunately make up a huge percentage of normal car buyers.

To them forward = up = upshift, most likely. Plus automatic gear selection is that way, too. (At least in the Toyota's and Subaru's that I've driven.)

Did you ever figure this out?

add suzuki to the list that have it the "right way". and who remembers the MR2 SMT? that had it the right way as well.

anyways, low gear on an AT is down, so they made it follow this convention. this is the simplest explanation. manufacturers that go against this convention have enough balls to literally flip it upside down and do what the race cars do, and not what the soccer mom expects.

also lets not forget the myriad of ways manufacturers had steering wheel activated shifting, even after ferrari came out with the F1 paddle shifters in the 355. MB and lexus had buttons, bmw and porsche had a toggle switch/"paddle", and look at the miata with a button and a paddle... only now has everyone sorta agreed to use right paddle up, left paddle down... then theres the whole wheel mounted vs column mounted paddles debate...

Art, we bought the car and I immediately went on a three month tour. I haven't been home since July 5th! I will look into it a bit when I get home. The other side of this equation is the paddles on the wheels are correct and that's pretty much all I will ever use anyway. If the sequential is an easy fix, I'll do it. If it requires an electronics degree, I'm out!

Fun fact: As far as I know, Mazda does it correctly on the "6" where forwards is a downshift and backwards is an up shift. You know, the direction of momentum.

They do it on the Miata's correctly as well. Tuned a turbo 2007 last night that had it.... was pretty interesting.

Hey, it could be worse; Mercedes-Benzes have a left-to-right motion to change gears with the manual mode... you wanna talk about counter-intuitive? I don't know what they were thinking. Never much cared for M-B anyway...

I too would like to know if a way of swapping up/down shift is found...

I found + towards driver very intuitive on my MR2-Spyder... and I keep doing it wrong on my FR-S..

.. I kinda feel like James May and the dogleg 1st gear when i do it.

Fixed..

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17018

A lot of people on this forum only drive in manual mode everyday...

Ummm.... If you were in a stick shift car, then under braking you will be both pulling and pushing the stick as you go down the gears...

It would be nice though if there was a standard for the autos across all manufacturers and models. Makes the transition to new cars a lot eaiser.

Point in case, yesterday I had to jump in and out multiple times and drive a VW polo, and a Toyota Corolla. Given that the indicators for each car was on the opposite sides to each other, it was a pain in the azz. Towards the end of the day I figured it was just easier when I needed to indicate, to hit both left and right hand stalks. Indicating to turn with wipers...

Instead of swapping the wires or reprogramming the ECU
Try to reprogram you're brain, it's cheaper, faster... and easier :)

a couple of things.

this is an AUTOMATIC you are talking about, it is not related in any way shape of form to a sequential roller barrel actuated race box, please remove all such thoughts from your head.

YOU ARE WRONG...let that sink in....better than 75% of all auto boxes are forward to shift....as are most upshifts in what has been standard for years....the 5 speed h pattern gearbox...1st UP 3rd UP 5th UP...only second and fourth are down,,,,in down shifting it is a split...


Automatics have been manually selectable for some time with the standard

P
R
N
D
3
2
1

pattern...and since you are driving an automatic...not a manual....it makes far more sense to maintain this same pattern...because this is a street car,

if you want a reverse manual selection, switch the wires and be done with it,

if you want a manual transmission....well....you paid extra for an auto...so obviously you didn't...