CV Joint Failure and Differential Failure
 

Well, I posted a few weeks ago about a clicking noise from my rear axle. Unfortunately I was right about it being the CV joint. The joint snapped when I shifted under hard acceleration and the differential is gone too. I'm guessing the exploding CV joint damaged it maybe? Either way, I'm trying to get the dealer to fix it under warranty, but they're giving me a hard time about my tires "showing signs of abuse." The most trouble they've dealt with is non-competition spirited driving on a closed course in second gear only. Even then, they try to say, "the tires show marks of perhaps dropped clutch or burnouts." Once again, I've never done a burnout or dropped the clutch, and the wear marks clearly show lateral forces, not longitudinal. Oh well, it'll be a debate. I wish this car could hold up to spirited driving, after all it is a 'sports car.' Isn't it implied that it's abilities will be exercised? It's one thing for the car to hold up to it, but another for the company to speak as if it only exists to look like a cool kid with high-waters.

A dealership is a two-way communication machine between you and the manufacturer. You need to learn how to communicate with a dealer to know what benefits them.

If you have trouble and you indeed have a legitimate claim, go take your business elsewhere, or escalate the issue with corporate. Or both.

-alex

The car does log events, and milestones, such as the highest RPM, etc.

It's in the dealership's interest to get a warranty claim covered for you, as they DO get paid to do the work. It's really the regional rep, and ultimately corporate, that decides whether you get covered or not.

Do you have an existing relationship with this dealer? A service history goes a long way in a dealer helping you get a warranty claim pushed through, to retain your long term business.

The whole car stock?

Well, now, AreteAuto .... that is a bad break (no pun intended) ..... :(

In another thread you started, your car's "ticking/clicking" was diagnosed as a bad C/V joint and the consequences of continuing to drive on it were predicted.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88428

You bill yourself as a "racing enthusiast". Does that mean you race your car or you just follow racing .. ??

When you mention "lightly upgraded", what does that entail .. ??

If and when you take this to “corporate” you may want to be prepared to address these types of questions.

I hope you get er fixed up soon!


humfrz

To add to the above:
You also said in your prior thread that "It started yesterday on my drive home from college with lots of baggage loaded in the car."
Any idea what it may have weighed?
Not criticizing I am just a bit concerned because I frequently have a pile of stuff in my car.

I would appreciate a primer in dealership communications, I've been accused of poor skills on my part contributing to my lackluster dealership experiences.

In my opinion, if the drivetrain breaks under 60k, hell if the stock axles and joints fail at all ever due to normal stress (not from a lack of lubrication or damage obviously) I will be disappointed. It shouldn't even be a discussion to replace them when under 60k miles.

Of course it's situational, power mods and lowered ride height have been shown to reduce life, no argument. If OP is on a 2" drop with 9" wide slicks and claiming +20 or more hp at the wheels then yeah, gotta pay to play, Toyota doesn't owe you better cv joints and axles, but it does owe you a car that can live up to it's own advertising. This was posted today:

Said at 2:10, the rest of the video is a bore with it rolling around the track with the exception of a decent drift at 3:30.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yGntMe***M"]2016 Scion FR-S Walkaround [Exterior & Interior] (Scion) - YouTube[/ame]

Much like conflict negotiation or even a job interview, you have to take a stance that gets the maximum benefit for all parties involved, and often times you have to show the dealer how a warranty claim would be perfectly fine even on a modified car.

Like CV joint failure... if someone says "your car can't be lowered", proof that your lowering is the same as the Series.Blue or RS 1.0 edition cars would strengthen your case.

Or just look at it from the service department's perspective: they will get paid on a claim that is legit, and you are not cheating the system.

There's many ways to go about this but in the end, it's all about relationship and not proclaiming the dealership as an evil entity to start. Every time I see a person with a "stealership" comment, I just want to flag those people as idiots not worthy of any warranty coverage as they automatically portray the dealership as the villain to start.

Two way street, that's how you look at it.

-alex

Yes indeed I do. My uncle, my grandfather, and I all have Toyota's from the same dealer. I also am friends with the manager of the sales department. So far it's looking like my case might pull through.
Not quite.
Water pump and crank pulleys, axleback exhaust, wheels and tires, front roll center kit, and a 1" drop. Which, I believe is the drop that TRD offers, right?
Yesss, unfortunately the diagnosis was right, but hey at least y'all are good at it! I'm just baffled the diff went with it, but I've heard people say it is weak.

I do not race the FR-S, I only compete in a Lotus Elise S. The FR-S is my DD and just a fun car for non-competitive events.

I listed upgrades above in this reply^

I'm doing all the preparation I can! :D
I can't imagine it weighed more than the weight capacity, or more than having 3 passengers crammed into the car... but there was a noticeable change in ride height... The sound was present with 2 passengers last week too.
This is a good point. I believe my car is not any lower than those, and I have proof that lowered cars with the same failure have been fixed under warranty. Also getting the problem on the records with corporate may contribute to a recall in the future that will keep the dealership from ever having to deal with this issue again. I don't know how solid that last point is, but I'm brainstorming haha. As for the exclusions, all I could find is "the car must not be raced." Thankfully, I haven't competed in this car yet, so I slipped that tackle.

YEEESSSS, that is quite a hook they just marketed. They marketed the compatibility for track days. Evidence, evidence... Much thanks.

This will be key.

Good luck!

Here's the items not covered under warranty;

This is the most important part.
Secondary concerns are whether your car has had prior warranty or service work performed, where the VIN may be flagged as "modified"... in which case, corporate will take a closer look at questionable warranty claims.

My axle started clicking a few weeks ago. My local dealership (name withheld) warrantied my axle without asking questions. Been only going to a single dealer and every legit claim they get paid, and I'm not going to bother them with borderline warranty stuff.

-alex

So today I put my best foot forward, but they denied warranty. I was mentally prepared to hear it, so I'll just deal with it and move on. Now I suppose the best I can do is research preventative measures so the car will hold up. Probably diff risers, and eventually a Tomei 1.5 way LSD. Then whatever else I can find to reduce axle movement. Now that warranty is gone, I'm all in.

You can always upgrade the axles as well.

I did think about that. I saw that someone broke the DSS axles too in the same way as the factory ones. I figured they must be stronger, but still not built for that extreme angle. If my axles break again, I'll be upgrading.

So is it for sure the CV snapped and messed up the diff?
anybody know what a oem diff and axles would cost?

Well......pooooo.......no warranty coverage ..... :cry:

Here is a good primer on CV joints.

One can see the potential "weakness" of this "link" in the drivetrain; however, I would think any type of CV joint should be able to hold together under a 1-2" drop (lowered & loaded car) from the differential to the wheel ..... :iono:

(after all, that's their job ...... :popcorn:)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constant-velocity_joint


humfrz

Weakness... link... The weak link :lol:

It's weird because speed academy hasn't had any CV issues on their Targa car, and they're on coilovers. My only guess is that the coilovers allow the axles to travel less and prevent it... Lowering springs, of course, will not do near as much.

Here's a good look at the axle during an autoX on someone's car. You can see the axle is already not level from the get-go. I can only imagine what Road Atlanta has been doing to those poor axles!
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PToOkNim7I"]KoniYellow RceSprings - YouTube[/ame]

Well, today marks my first week with the car, and now I have this ticking/clicking from the rear left as well. 12.4k miles. It's a '13 so still under warranty, gonna have to see what Toyota says on Monday..

Car hasn't seen a track or anything like it. Yes, spirited driving on the street has of course taken place, but not anything near what it shouldn't be able to handle.

As long as your tires look nice, there should be no issues for warranty. Many times they just call it a day after torquing the axle-nut though. For some, this helped. For others, the clicking returned and joints broke. Just be prepared for either situation, good luck!

First off, thanks for the info! Secondly, my axles are fine, it seems. I was convinced the sound was mechanical, or atleast coming from the axle, but I only heard to very shortly, because I was close to home when it happened, and when I heard it, I drove home and parked. Then two days later I decided to check how bad the noise was and when it happened (only turning left, only acceleration etc) - but when I then drove it, it sounded more like something was stuck in the tire, and indeed I had a rock lodged between the tire thread.

Now, it sounds silly, but it hasn't made a click since. But I can't shake the feeling how it did sound like a CV joint at first! I even had a full-time mechanic with in the car when the sound first occurred, and he agreed!

I had the TC and VSC off when I heard the noise though, and had them on again on the next drive, but that shouldn't matter right? All those do is act when the car is actually slipping/losing grip?

I do hope that it was indeed a rock! As long as it isn't doing anything anymore, I'd say don't worry about it unless any future noises come up. The electronic aids shouldn't make a difference, because I believe they are only wired to the brakes rather than the diff. If you had them off, then that's discards any thought that they had something to do with it. Yes, correct, they are reactive to slipping sensed by wheelspin. TC is made to prevent slippage in a straight line, VSC is made to keep the car from losing control in corners.

Oh yeah, I'm well aware of when they activate/what they prevent, what I meant was that they are purely electronical until they act, so to speak. It's not like it's mechanical and should make any difference if it's on and off, until they are supposed to kick in :) All they do is cut power and apply brakes.

Hey thats my video ha.

Also I had my axle replaced last year or the year before. Drivers rear was clicking. Was done under warranty.

Haha it's an enlightening video! Very good view of what's going on down there.

Daggum, I should have had it replaced when the clicking started before it broke. Oh well, I'm just glad it works properly for now!