WORKS Motorsports Turbo Kit Experience
 

So, after much going back and forth, I decided on the WORKS Turbo kit. I know the haters out there will bitch and moan, but for the money, reliability of the components, ease of install, and power levels that I'm looking for it's a no brainer.


I will be ordering this next week! Those who are interested or on the fence about this kit stay tuned! I'll be updating this thread with progress pics from delivery, install, dyno, driving experience and feedback throughout the whole process.


Plan is to run the following-

• WORKS Turbo Kit
• Borla UEL header
• MANZO Catless Front Pipe
• MANZO Over Pipe
• Ikon Motorsports Cat Back Exhaust
• Vent Pod AEM Wideband/Boost Gauge
• Open Flash Tablet E85/93 octane

Looking forward to it!

I truly hope you are getting the one with the a2w intercooler.

And it begins....lol

I hate to be THAT guy but being around turbocharged mr2's my entire life, I think I know a little bit about proper intercooling. Good intercooling is VITAL to a reliable setup.

I wish you all the best on your blow-through setup. I seriously would love to be proven wrong. Especially on a car that is known to run hot even WITH proper intercooling.

Cheers.

Mid engine cars with minimal airflow to an intercooler are slightly different than front engine cars with a big opening for a good air to air intercooler...

Air to water intercooling isn't going to drop under hood temperatures either. All turbo'd cars are going to need oil cooling, and everything you can do to manage underhood heat. Coat the exhaust parts, wrap them, turbo blanket, etc.

hey i heard you like intercooling, heres an intercooler for your intercooler so you can internally cool while your cooling internally :lol:

Well that's my point. Mid-engine cars suffer from poor intercooling. Even with my upgraded Greddy SMIC, it's only mediocre at best. I'll either have to cut out my trunk to lay a large intercooler in there (not willing to do this!), or run an a2w setup (which I am currently piecing together).

Have you seen the stage 1 Works kit? Front engine or not, it lacks an intercooler. I hope to god you're not gonna argue with me over this. The turbo will blow nothing but hot air! In a strict drag setup, sure. But anything else all I see is trouble. At the very minimum you should be running WMI if you're going non-intercooled.

Might upgrade later down the road. However the tuners that have installed them so far said heat wasn't an issue.

At low boost on e85 you should have no issues imo. Its essentially chemical inter cooling with e85.

...yet, there's a 100 page topic about "combating heat". And, everybody who is turbo is running into heat issues unless they've addressed everything.

Don't get me wrong, I like this kit WITH the a2w setup. I would never do the stage 1 though. AIT's are probably scary!

If it becomes an issue then I will upgrade

Apples and oranges, but compare the innovate intercooled vs non-intercooled.

http://i.imgur.com/GKntLfX.png

Last time I tried to discuss this....

So, I will be stepping out of this thread now, lest someone become offended that I'm questioning their product in the matter that I question all products.

Fixed it for you.
Don't forget about an oil cooler.
And please don't call it reliable when it hasn't been fully tested.

Not so sure about that... It also helps I don't track the car, only DD it. An oil cooler will be purchased as well anyway just for added protection.


Asks me not to call the kit reliable "since it hasn't been fully tested" (which was based on the components used), but then says it will for sure have heat issues???

Does this show IAT's somewhere or are you just showing the power difference?

If you read the original thread... They don't provide much data. Only reassurance. Being vague does not give me confidence in their products.

I'm in the 220-230f oil temps on a stock motor, street driven. It's safe to say it is going to be hotter when you add more power.

I will also be stepping out of this thread now.

I can appreciate that. I was actually referring to the posts provided by Moto-East and Motiva performance about their experience with the lack of heat.

Underhood heat from a turbo kit and IAT's aren't 100% correlated like you're suggesting.

Even with an intercooler, you're still going to need to do things to keep underhood temperature down.

How much intercooler you need is a function of how much you're compressing the air more than underhood temperature.

Yes, you can get some heatsoak from a hot engine bay, but you're still going to get that heatsoak with an intercooler (over longer lengths of piping).

At the end of the day, the turbo is breathing in relatively cool air and compressing it. The compression is what drives up the IAT's. That's why you need a better intercooler with more pressure.

Would I take a car without an IC lapping on pump gas, no (e85 is possibly a different story)... but for a pure street car on low boost running e85, it's not going to be nearly as bad as you suggest.

As long as you don't track this kit. You should be fine.

You have a hard-on to argue with me don't you? Where did I say anything about under hood temps.

I'm not even talking about under hood temps. That's another big problem in itself regarding this car. I'm talking about the basic fundamental principles of turbocharging. Intake air temps are going to be cooking without an intercooler.

What's your point seriously? The stage one has no IC.

Have you even owned a turbo car? Don't try to tell me that a non intercooled kit is fine. Even if you have race fuel or e85, why...?! Proper intercooling is an absolute must for reliablity. Also given the characteristics of how this engine runs with a turbo, you're waiting for melted pistons to happen with no intake charge cooling. It's just all a bad idea with no IC. Not sure who you're trying to convince but you sure like to talk.

You're joking, right? You mentioned the thread about combating heat. That thread is about engine bay and coolant heat, not IAT's.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53580

How do you know what IAT's are going to be without knowing how much boost he's running, and what turbo (where the boost target lands in the efficiency graph will affect how much heat is generated too), etc, etc, etc.

Will IAT's be lower with an IC, yes. Will they be dangerous without one, you can't possibly say without knowing way more than you know about his setup.

Don't forget about the charge cooling effects of DI, coupled with high ethanol content.

The turbo placement in their kit means less heatsoak than a front mounted one, also a factor in how much charge cooling you need.

There are lots of low boost turbo kits on many platforms that work very well without intercoolers, with good reliability. Running ~5psi is very different from even ~10psi in terms of how much heat is generated in compressing the intake charge.

Pistons don't melt from high IAT's, they melt from high combustion temps. If the tune is running safe timing for the IAT's and a good afr, the engine will run totally fine.

I'm not saying non-intercooled is ideal, or for everyone, but it's not a time bomb like you claim.

His tuner mentioned no heat issues. I referred him to that thread. But I'm pointing out the no IC deal here. Everybody seems to agree that it is not good. Many have asked for AIT data including myslef to no avail. Coming from 10+ years of turbo car ownership and tinkering with a shit ton of friends and family's boosted cars, why would you even say this is okay. The first thing we all do to our boosted cars is upgrade the IC. With no IC, sure it'll run. But you're not going to be pushing much horsepower if you want reliability.

So what's the point of going turbo and dropping ~$5000 for what, a 50hp increase that blows hot air that you can't even use for extended periods. The stage one kit is as horrible as that electronic supercharger junk. That's like ordering a steak dinner and only being able to eat the sides.

Not sure what your point in arguing with me is. I will stand to say that the stage 1 setup is just not worth it. I do like the kit though. ONLY in stage 2 format. Not even sure why they'd even attempt to sell a stage 1.

A turbo kit with no IC on a car that is known to run hot is just asking for disaster. Unless you're into wanting to drop $5k for a setup that can only be used spurts at a time, run race fuel, e85, or setup a 5 gallon tank of methanol controlled by an Aquamist, by all means, go for it.

lower temperatures are better for cars

Stage 1 does have an air/fin intercooler, it just doesn't get a fresh flow of air to it. I'd be very interested to see how much the Stage 1 "intercooler" drops IATs compared to a straight ceramic coated pipe. Then dyno again with the A2W intercooler.
Until then, all the debating in this thread is based on theoretical ideas. @WORKS didn't do a great job on their initial release thread with answering questions or providing requested data, but perhaps they can join in now.

You just don't get it, do you? IAT's and underhood temperatures aren't directly corellated at all. You're drawing connections that just aren't there.

It's also a $3300 kit, not $5k.

Where does the kit boost pressure land on the efficiency island? Do you even know which turbo it is (specifically, not just GT28)?

Get logs showing that IAT's are dangerous in street driving (even spirited), and I'll listen. Until then, you're just yammering on without an evidence at all.

Heatsoak? Have you heard....?

Heatsoak city is what this kit is as-is. You sure love it. Lol Have fun making your tiny HP gain for $$$- if you haven't clued in yet! Hairdryer setup on peanut boost because our engines are fragile to boost with a high 12.5:1 built orginally for NA.

I see this kit as used only for dyno pulls and quick spuirts for the stage 1. I dare you to do a full lapping session in that car even if it makes tiny boost safely. Obviously, they're using a tiny ass turbo. Csg asked for tested data and received none. I asked, received none. What are you trying to prove? That this kit is "barely good enough"? Lol. You obvious missed the boat since 2003.

Is this your first sports car? Stop dodging this question ahaha.

Oh and the kit (system) really is ~$5000 if you factor in ALL supporting heat mods like turbo blankets, oil coolers, vented hood, bigger rad, and so on.

I don't know about you but I'd get something else. OR...................

Back to the OP:

If you get this kit, please do it right and get it all with the a2w setup. TRUST ME!

Add ice and stick all the water intercooler system in the rear (weight distribution ahaha) 1.5 gallon resevior in the trunk. A2W rad up front.

It'd be a waste to do it the barest bone setup THEN all that money into tuning . Later on, adding the intercooler and having to retune again. No?

whoa, I thought this was gonna be a boring build thread-turns out its a pissing contest! (just giving you guys a hard time-so don't take it too personally lol)

I'm still interested in seeing results from the WORKS turbo kits. Sure they might not make the most power, but for 8/10 people, their turbo'd car is for street use. I heard the ESC mentioned, and I happen to have it. Do I make crazy power? No. Can I go 10/10ths on the track all crazy? No. I drive my car on the street, and it does a perfect job of when I want a little more ooomph. Pretty sure the stage 1 Works kit is along those lines.

I am VERY interested to see what happens with reliability of this kit. Our cars run pretty hot already, so as more of these(or any? I haven't seen any "real" street users yet) come out/are used, it'll be more apparent what works/doesn't work.

Ultimately, I like seeing kits come out for this car. Make sense or not, doesn't matter-the "bad" kits will die off, and the better/powerful/more reliable kits will prevail or at least be known.

Sub'd for build. Make sure you keep up with photos/posts and feedback.

Every WORKS thread turns into this lol

The intercoolong stuff is common 'best practice' knowledge. A single mention would have sufficed.

Why not wait for somebody to actually install this particular kit and try it for real before we all get our ****s in a flap?

For reference, see below for logs of the default EcuTek logging parameters for the stage 1 kit with an ambient temperature of ~40F:

http://www.datazap.me/u/frede/workst...e?log=0&data=4 93 Octane
http://www.datazap.me/u/frede/workst...0?log=0&data=5 E70

Front mounted turbos heat soak WAY worse than rear mounted, so this is already starting off at an advantage.

Get a freaking clue. These engines are stronger and hold power better than lots of engines originally built for boost. The stage 1 kit is designed to make 200-220whp, which it does safely and easily. Not everyone wants 350whp.

I already said I wouldn't consider running track sessions with a setup like this, but for a pure street car looking to make a bit of extra power it works just fine. As for the turbo size, get another clue. There's simply no point in running a bigger turbo than needed unless you like poor throttle response and lag. You can make ~400whp on on a GT28 (depending on wheels), well beyond what you want to make on stock internals on 93/94 octane.

I find it a bit funny you're talking about how it would only hold up to a couple quick pulls, but I get the impression neither of your cars get used for anything but that.

You're also basing all of this off the fact they wouldn't give you logs? Even if they did you would just call BS on it. They don't have to prove anything to you if people that have actually put their money into the kit are happy with it.

No it's not, but why would that matter? You're basing your facts off 25 year old tech pretending to know everything there is to know. When was the last time either of your cars saw a track?

The kit would be totally fine on an average pure street car with just the kit. The extra stuff is needed for people that are pushing the car harder, and everyone even considering track time should have an oil cooler.

I get where Mike is coming from because he actually tracks his cars, and puts them through a lot of torture, but he's far from the average owner, so his needs are VERY different than someone just looking for a bit more grunt on the street. Not sure what your excuse is.

Also, see the logs below. 40F is ~4C, highest IAT is 20C. I get a bigger spread in IAT sitting at a red light for 60 seconds. Most of the time it's within 6C of ambient, which is actually about what I see on mine on the highway N/A. Now you have logs proving it's actually working quite well, what's your next story?

Just an FYI Fred, second link doesn't work.

That iat data is meaningless since the iat sensor is pre turbo...

This guy is still talking.......


http://i2.minus.com/iuJhL7WKAxtLy.jpg

Sorry, it should be working now.

Is it draw through MAF?? I thought they were running it as blow through. That does change how useful (or useless) the log is.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and take that as you confirming you've never tracked either car.

And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that you've never owned a formidible turbocharged car let alone build one?

I ran the mr2 with Touge.ca at cayuga a few years back. What's your issue? You've also proven to many of us here that you clealry have no direct experience with anything turbo. Seriously, all I see is a keyboard mechanic just reading and reposting what you find on the interwebs. Where is your direct experience?

Anybody that knows me knows that I build first and foremost for reliability. Power comes second. You clealry have know grip of knowledge surrounding turbo cars and how they behave if you're kinned to Works stage1 kit. It put down a measly 250whp ON E85 is what they said. Seriously, if you're into cheap thrills and only need a tiny bump in hp to satisfy for pulls here and there, you've got ESC Phantom written all over you. I can't even begin to imagine what a stage1 works does on pumpgas. Yikes!

You drive a 165whp frs, stop posing like you're a race car driver and please stop recommending what people should do in a FI application when you yourself don't even have any direct experience. Look, I get that you don't like me, but save face bro, you're making yourself look terrible.

There's so much more I can say but I'm on break at work.

My opinions on the stage 1 works kit is that it is trash. Do it right the first time and go stage2. Hell, even fab an a2a setup for the stage 1 if you don't want the complexities of an a2w system. But most importantly, intercooling is absolutely a necessity to turbocharging.

I'm done.

Thank God. :offtopic:

Now back to this build thread...

So why not let the guy install it, run it, and then see how it goes? Seems like a discussion about a whole bunch of issues that haven't even arisen yet. The OP understands what he bought and will post up how everything works. If the overall design does turn out to be shitty, then I'm sure he'll let everyone know.

I'm actually pretty eager to read about a real world experience with this kit from a customer who installed it.