Best EL catless header?
 

Hi guys,

I tried to search but was not able to find any concrete result. I am looking to get a catless EL header.

I already have hi flow cat and resonated front pipe and resonated exhaust, so I think noise would not be too much of a concern.

I am in a dilemma between Nameless, JDL, PTUNING and TOMEI.

I was initially set on the Nameless header before they released it because of all the hype and stuff, but after they released it, it seem like it did not outperform other header by a lot.

I also hear people say that PTUNING is the best one on the market, but I know JDL also has superb quality, so I am really lost.

I am looking for the absolute best quality, cleanest sounding and best performing header (with a tune, of course). Price is not such a big of a concern.

Can anyone give me any advice?

Thanks!

Also I currently have drop in filter, nameless OP/DP with hi-flow cat and resonator and perrin resonated exhaust. I may or may not get an intake, my final goal is to have a clean sounding car that will touch 200 whp on the dyno (with ecutek)..

The Ptuning is very good quality.
Get a tune with it for sure though.

There is no best header. There are compromises with each header. You need to look at what is most important to you: a broader power band, peak power, peak torque, price, looks, or sound. There is no one size fits all best header.

Yea, I totally understand this and that's why I am in this huge dilemma right now. The car will be a daily driver, I already have the catted and resonated nameless OP/DP and perrin resonated exhaust. I just want to finish the overall package with a quality header and tune and call it a day...

I would love to touch the 200whp after the tune, but I also want a quality header that will last as long or out last the car, and also sounds civilized enough for a DD...

When I had to make a similar decision, after a lot of research I purchased the PTUNING header because of its proven quality and output. The JDL header looks excellent, but I wasn't convinced that they spent as much time optimizing exhaust cam timing during its development, and the quality didn't seem to be the match of the PTUNING header (although it looks like a close second). The Tomei seems like well made piece at a very affordable price (although their unequal length header looks much cooler than their equal length header).

Good luck with your purchase and let us know what you decide on.

How you drive the car will play a big role in the header you choose.
If you aren't in the upper RPMs often, you may not like the Ptuning since there is still a small "dip". If you track or don't mind driving in the upper RPMs, the Ptuning is a great choice.
The only other header I can compare it to is an UEL header with OFT tune.
It got rid of the dip but the Ptuning wins in every other category IMO.

I'd say Tomei or JDL

Tomei is nice but not really in the same legue as the other two options mentioned and from all reports doesn't pick up as much power from a tune. Between the JDL and the Ptuning the biggest difference seems to be the torque curve. the JDL usually has a bump where the dip normally is the lifts up again towards redline. The Ptuning has quite a flat curve from early on with a small dip in it.

Another header to look at is the Aceheader 4-2-1. it looks well made and has a nice torque curve.

I'd like to see these reports, I'm making 193whp w/Tomei on 93.

When I was shopping for a new exhaust manifold, it came down to PTuning and Tomei. Most of the headers are more or less identical (exception for the few 4-1 headers). A friend of mine for example has JDL, I'm making essentially the exact same power (he is 1 hp less than me actually). Tuned by the same person, on the same dyno. Weather conditions nearly identical.

PTuning with a full exhaust will make the most power. Fantastic piece of work. I would have gone PTuning if budget wasn't a factor.

Get PTuning header, and check out their thread. Pretty consistent 199whp - 203whp dyno numbers on 93. Availability can be an issue on their headers, they arnt ordered too often and they sell pretty fast.

Making a couple whp more up top means nothing if you're giving up more down in the midrange across a wider rpm range.

Look at the shape of the powerband on the headers, not peak numbers. The nameless is going to make much better power in the midrange due to it being a 4-2-1 compared to the good 4-1 headers out there, but will give up a couple hp up top.

Unless you're drag racing, you're probably going to be happier with the meatier midrange than the extra couple hp at peak.

I got my catless EL header from Top Speed. Less than 400 bucks and very good quality.
I also have the carless Perrin resonated exhaust. Love the sound.
Here's the header
http://topspeedauto.com/scion-fr-s-f...ght-flex-pipe/

You can hear my car here with the top speed header. I'm #24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU8oW...ature=youtu.be

Can I see the dyno graphs?

To OP: The Tomei kit will probably be the most complete kit even if the performance gains are no as great as the others. You get gaskets, antiseize and heat shielding barrier to stick on your oil pan. You'd be lucky to even get gaskets with any other brand.

Sorry, gotta plug.

ACE 4-2-1 (even comes with gaskets and decals).

Sounds awesome and has pretty good welds:)
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80609

Nameless and JDL are also very good options

Is the Ace header even in production yet? I havent seen any examples besides your r/d in your thread

Oder from our website, or talk to CSG

All headers are hand made to order. 4 weeks from date of purchase anywhere in the world.

Are headers are on cars in Europe, South America, Asia, Africa, and Australia. No one from the US has ever ordered from our website, guess guys were waiting for distributors?

:)

Just beware of "claims" by header makers/tuners, a lot of them "forget" to mention the full header back exhaust and/or drop in filter or intake added as well as the tune and header, probably on a nice cold morning or evening dyno run on 93 octane from a selected known good outlet to get the figures they claim.

Dyno sheet attached Yes, a little torque dip but I honestly don't feel it. It's only there for ~ 1K RPMs (from ~3,500 to ~4,500). Even then, I'm only losing ~ 20 ftlb trq as compared to before the header/tune. It really made a massive difference. And, staying above the torque dip is super easy.

As @steve99 stated, here is full disclosure of my "power making" full list of mods:
- Tomei EL Exhaust Manifold (Header)
- Tomei Overpipe
- Invidia Catted FP
- Perrin Catback (Resonated)
- Stock Intake Box w/Drop-In Filter and Silicon Inlet

Amazing value on this header, but its not near the quality or potential of the PTuning header.

Any chance either of your headers would be offered with a high flow cat? I can't picture if there would be room in the overpipe with the 4-2-1 or not.

My bet is that if it took greater efforts to prolong runners by running two pipes instead of stock one where overpipe is, then almost certainly cat won't fit there. Probably if two cats are must have, then it's easier to put both in front pipe + bung for O2 sensor + sensor wire harness extension.

Guys he doesn't care how it drives, just that it makes 200 on some dyno

If you look at their 4-2-1, it goes past where the stock overpipe would mate to the stock header, and includes their own overpipe. I'm wondering if they could squeeze a cat into the overpipe or if it's too tight.

But that custom two pipe overpipe ends where stock one does, so to be able to bolt it to stock rest of exhaust, or to most aftermarket ones, that all are designed as stock replacements. So if in overpipe portion there is no more space, cat can be put only after it, where stock frontpipe starts. So you need custom frontpipe. And if so .. why not put whatever cats one needs in it?

That overpipe area is really tight as it has to have that curvature to go over the front sway, I seriously doubt you can fit anything like a cat in there. catted front pipe is the only option.

Is all that noise from the header back worth the extra 10 or so ponies? lol old man issues...

For efficiency (MPG) you really need to stay and cruise around 3000rpms in a lot of situations, and that when you'll notice the loss of power most. Again... old man issues haha

I like the noise. ;) And I'm also an old man. haha

My MPG went up after the header and tune. If i'm not driving like a jackass I get ~ 30mpg consistently.

Hey Raven, you're 1/2 correct.

Yes, we aim for 200+ HP on a true dyno pull.

If we didn't care how it drove our cars wouldn't be so fast:)

Also correct, unfortunately our design does not account for a cat in the OP section. Nameless with their "up and over" design may. We used the OP section to build long runners for increased torque which nameless did with their unique concept.

Post OP is possible but may require some creative thinking.

The right header is out there for everyone, maybe it's our, maybe not. We just love these cars and want development to keep improving.

Happy driving
Team ACE

Was directed towards op sir not you at all lol

PPE is my choice, made over 200hp with header and delicious tune stg 2 e85

An UEL header will ultimately make a bit less power, but it will be "more fun" on the street as the power is shifted down the power band and the torque dip is eliminated. The PTuning and Tomei EL headers are fantastic, but they aren't as fun to drive on the street unless you rev out every shift and the torque dip will still be there at least to some degree. If this is primiarly a DD, I strongly suggest a UEL header.

I wanted to go EL primarily for the sound

I see this opinion on the forums a lot. Fun on the street is very subjective. I personally enjoy working through the gears and would rather downshift into the powerband than chug along at a low rpm.

Uel is most fun around 3-5k rpm. I dont think youll be downshifting to anywhere higher than that. And you def wont be chugging.

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I wonder how is clubsport compared to ace?

You mean the Club Sport Headers made by ACE compared to the ACE Type A Headers?

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Chriswongbrz: CS400 primary purpose was better clearance for RHD twins. Performance relative to Type A/350 is a bit lower/optimisation moved even at lower rpms for ClubSport. Also it was at some point made using "Type B" quicker slip-on robo welds, resulting in cheaper product (but IIRC Ace solved problems with manufacturing speed of A welding, so not sure B-ness in lower cost (but less handwork/a bit heavier headers) still holds true).
If you have normal LHD car, header to get from Ace is A/350. If RHD, CS400, or if you track a lot, A/250.

Yes

From the grave....