Axle stands
 

So we don't seem to be able to actually get to the axles on these cars... so at the moment when I get the GT86 up on to axle stands I'm just putting them where the jacking points are on the edge of the car near the wheels. I've been using a block of wood with a groove cut down the middle to spread the weight out a little (so that we can jack it up on the wood then slide the axle stand in next to it) and also the wood makes it fit nicely in to the axle stand "cup".

But I assume there must be a better and less sketchy way of doing this than using bits of wood... I think I saw one guy one here had some polyurethane parts custom made up for this purpose, but are there no pre made parts we can buy for this? What does everyone else do when they want to work under the car?

You could get something like these, I don't know if they fit the jacking points perfectly but it's a bit better:

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-piece...and-95952.html

Cement blocks and blocks of wood have worked for years ..... why over engineer the project .. :)


humfrz

What I do:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq8h6ra9s2I"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq8h6ra9s2I[/ame]

(rubber blocks on factory lift point front, wherever it falls in rear...)

Will never go back to jack and jack stands!

Idea taken from another thread here. Too lazy to look for it.

Hockey pucks.
http://i.imgur.com/2Yraew9.png

Because; Cement blocks are prone to sudden structural failure. Which leaves the car sitting on you arm, chest, leg or whatever is under the car.

Hello @Caspeed ...... http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...mages/wave.gif

Let's see here ...... according to the inter-web, a well made (in the US of A) cement block, has a compression strength of 1900 psi.

A 8"x8" block would have the surface area of 16 sq. in.

16 x 1900 would = 30,400 lbs per block.

A FR-S/BRZ weighs about 2,800 lbs.

Therefore, one cement block should hold up about 10 FR-S cars.

I'll trust my body under cement blocks and 4x4" wooden blocks ...... any day ....... over "made in Taiwan" jack stands.

Hey, lemmie alone ....... I'm old ....... http://www.runemasterstudios.com/gra...es/grumble.gif


humfrz

overthinking things is a hallmark sign of a true enthusiast.. carry on bros

One concrete or cinder block ("cement" is just a small part of concrete) can also shatter in a second if the weight is not dispersed over the entire surface evenly!

Ah yes Darwin at his best... I'm old too.... Too damn old.... and I've seen them fail...with no warning...But you're a big boy take your risks as you wish. Good Luck!

Sacrilege!
http://memecrunch.com/meme/1G9N2/blasphemer/image.jpg

OK, I'll be careful ..... :popcorn:


humfrz

I use this one when I do my hazard analysis sessions for new hires:

http://ct.weirdnutdaily.com/ol/wn/sw...dgy-repair.jpg

lol! As I was taking the picture I thought of you. Didn't you say once that you were a bad Canadian for not really being into it? Maybe that was someone else.

i tried using the jack stand "covers" that are made from that poly-something rubber material... my pinch weld still ate it up :(

i used a "slotted" hockey puck (for the jack) that was pre-made and after using it 3 times, my pinch weld cut right thru the slot and broke the hockey puck in half. lol. :( this one though i dont think the slot was deep enough so ill try again. but damn. i hate these damn pinch weld jacking points!

my friend got that his for his race car and its badass but damn... its a pretty penny to buy!

It was me! But I still have to defend it or they will kick me out and I will have to live in Detroit!

Yup. The trick is to cut that center notch deep enough.

I'm sure there are better solutions but I'm a cheap bastard. :)

Nooooo! Delete! Delete!...

lol this thread got more comedy value than I was expecting.

Back to being serious though - a few people saying wood or cement is ok, but I'm a n00b so can you just confirm the way we're doing it is acceptable?

Attachment 102269

The load bearing jacking point is where the axle stand is in that picture (underneath the wood obviously) but of course putting the axle stand there means I can't put the jack there. So we were just using the wood mainly to distribute the load a bit when we jack up on a point that is as close to the load bearing jacking point as possible but not actually on it (as mentioned above, can't put it on it because then it would be in the way of the axle stand). Then once it is jacked up high enough we slide the axle stand in to position and then remove the jack. Personally I think it is a bit sketchy, but my friends say it is ok.

If other people who only have a normal jack don't do it like this, how do you do it?

Just found this thread which answers my question: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10111
Although I can't really see where exactly on the rear they are putting the jack... I know it is on the diff and I understand what a diff is, but when I get underneath my car its pretty hard to spot exactly what I'm supposed to be putting the jack on

Jacking with anything between the jack and the vehicle scares the crap out me! Every time you add a surface and increase the distance from the jack pad to the body you are increasing the chances of something failing. In the case of your pic that "pad" could kick or roll right out of there and down comes the works!

The wood has a groove cut down the middle of it that sits on the pinch weld lip thing that you're meant to jack from - so I don't see how the wood could roll out (especially when the weight of the car is pressing it in to the jack or axle stand). To me it seems like there is more likely to be an issue without using something like that to spread the load a little. Just putting the axle stand directly on that incredibly thin lip and having all the weight going through that one small point seems like asking for trouble

if you look right up on the bottom of the diff, you'll actually see two small "tabs/bumps" things...this will help avoid jacking up on the diff cover which is bad. you can place a flat 2x4 wood block under this and use the jack... or jack straight on it with a thin rubber pad sheet.

It is. That's why it shouldn't be done. If you look at the OEM jack, you can see the way that lip fits down into the business end of the jack.

Cinderblocks can and do fail without warning. Extremely dangerous.

Wood can also fail if not used properly. One must consider the load as it is distributed along the grain. I don't recommend it.

Like @Tcoat said, putting anything between the jack/jackstand and the car is risky business.

The differential case (not the cover, as @BRGT86 pointed out) is the correct place to jack the rear of the car. The jacking point is approximately in between the output shafts, IIRC.

If you have weakened the wood block by cutting a groove down the center, what's to keep it from splitting and sending half in each direction?

I don't know if it could actually go anywhere even if it split, because the full width of it is pressed in to the cup of the axle stand. But yeah I agree it is not ideal and that's why I started this thread because I thought it was a bit sketchy. I haven't really seen any better alternatives that I can actually do though... people keep mentioning hockey pucks cut in half, but I don't really trust that any more than I'd trust a piece of wood. What would you suggest instead of wood?

So what would you recommend? You've said that putting something in between the axle stand and the car is bad, but you also said using the axle stand directly on the pinch weld is bad, so what am I meant to do?

OK thanks, I'll see if the jack will reach that far under the car (might be tricky now that it has been lowered). Assuming it does reach, then that's one problem solved but I've still got the issue of exactly how to mount the axle stands safely around the pinch weld. Seems like a lot of people don't recommend putting wood in between the axle stand and the car, but people also agree that putting the axle stand directly on the pinch weld lip is a bad idea (and my axle stands don't have a slit down the middle that the pinch weld can go in to), so I'm not really sure what to do...

Look at my picture of the custom hockey pucks. That's ok because they compress quite a bit so, even if they pop out, the worst you have is a marred finish on the car. I'm sure there are better, more expensive solutions but I'm into the guerrilla technique because it's part of the fun.

I would trust a hockey puck before I would trust wood because wood has grain along which to split, whereas a puck is more likely to have a uniform structure.

But this is not that difficult a problem. There are plenty of jack stands made for pinchwelds, plus dozens of pinchweld adapters on the market made from a variety of materials. A Google image search shows how other people have solved the issue. I even saw someone suggest permanently mounting a rail along the pinchweld to provide a flat jacking point.

If it doesn't, you need a low profile jack. I have the giant low-profile hi-rise Harbor Freight jack, and it would have to be pretty damned low for that thing not to fit under it.

You say this, but I've spent the last 15 minutes searching for some that I can actually buy and got nowhere. Sure, there are plenty of pictures of them, but I can't find anywhere (especially in the UK) actually selling them. I can find jack adapters for pinch welds, but not axle stand / jack stand adapters, or axle stands that already have heads suitable for pinch welds. All of the forum threads I find about this topic end up with people either using wood or hockey pucks... both of which seem like a pretty sketchy DIY solution to a problem that must affect every person who ever wants to get their car up on axle stands, which is why it baffles me that there is not a more "proper" tool for the job that is easy to find and buy.

So a hockey puck possibly popping out is fine but wood splitting is not? Surely its the same end result?

No. The puck would only pop out while lowering the car onto it. One would have to be really sloppy for that to happen because it's a process of easing it down and adjusting as the car seats in.

Also, when seated, the puck is compressed enough it just acts like a pad. There's no separation - no place for the car to roll out/off of the spacer.

The wood (or cinderblock) can fail without warning at any time.

I'm not advocating it as the end-all solution. Just an idea.

I'm still not understanding how the wood is any different. The wood is pressed in to the cup of the axle stand just like the hockey puck would be - once the weight of the car is on it there is nowhere the wood can go even if it splits.

EDIT: it might help if I show you what my axle stands look like - and the yellow outline is how the wood sits in it

Attachment 102342

Attachment 102343

If that wood splits, where can it possibly go when it is pressed in to the jack stand by the weight of the car?

So I just had a quick look - is this point that I've marked with the yellow arrow where I should be placing the jack (i.e actually on that black metal beam), or is it behind that? In other pictures I've seen it is hard to tell

Attachment 102344

Also can someone explain to me why we even need to bother with putting the axle stands around the pinch welds at all? I understand that that's where the strengthened part of the car is and that it is intended to be a load bearing part, but that's the bit BEHIND the pinch weld isn't it... not the thin lip of the pinch weld itself. So why can't I just stick an axle stand directly behind the pinch weld on the thick flat part that is actually meant to be load bearing? I must be missing something, but it seems like everyone's solutions involve just making your jack or axle stand miss the pinch weld entirely and just get surface area on the part behind it and in front of it - but the bit in front of the pinch weld doesn't seem strong at all so I assume it is the part behind it that takes all of the load... so why not just stick an axle stand with a flat head on that?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/attac...1&d=1338409596

http://www.grimmspeed.com/content/im...iy/figure4.jpg

http://www.grimmspeed.com/content/im...iy/figure7.jpg

What is this system called?