SPC Camber Bolt Issue
 

I recently installed the SPC 81305 camber bolt. I installed the bolt on the bottom mounting point on the strut, just as the instructions stated. After getting an alignment, the technician stated that he could only achieve -0.4 and -0.7 maximum camber when I wanted -1.5 on both sides.

He stated that if I used the camber bolt on the upper mounting hole, I can get more adjustment. Would it be possible to use this bolt on the top instead? I want to get more negative camber, but do so safely.

This is the exact same one that I purchased.
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/spc-...front-776.html
:thanks:

It is supposed to be in the top.

Not true. Spc instructions say bottom for that particular part number. And the instructions also say "frs/brz".

From what I know, people usually use 14mm on bottom and 16mm or subaru/toyota crash bolts on top. I say you just get another set for the top holes.

It's better on top. The camber I mean

I have also read people used two sets of the same bolts on top and bottom.

Its suggested to put it at the bottom.

http://www.spcalignment.com/componen...AFrom&to=USATo

Take the lower hole bolt that was removed and use it in the upper slot. It is the OEM crash bolt. I can get -2.5 with this setup on a 1" drop.

while i used camber bolts on both holes with no problems, keep in mind your not effectively running 2 weaker bolts rather that one if you choose to do that.

This.



Setting camber isn't always "what I want" but rather "what the adjustment methods will physically allow."

I'm also running exactly the set-up @finch1750 mentioned and have it dialed it in -1.7 both sides on the front. Could have probably pushed it a bit more to -2.0 with another set of hands.

So you guys are saying its completely safe to use a 14mm bolt in a 16mm slot?

lol ^

Yes, a plain 14mm bolt. This is called a "crash bolt" and is the OEM camber adjustment part. You can buy them from the dealer but you just get the same bolt you pulled from the lower mounting hole. If you use a 14mm lobed bolt like SPC in a 16mm hole the chances the bolt will slip are pretty high.

to the OP, just wondering if your technician loosen the upper bolt while adjusting the camber.

I was able to achieve -2 with oem crash bolts in the top holes and spc kit in the lower holes. No slippage that I've detected, and I get my alignment specs checked after every event pretty much. Just an FYI.

Is this the correct procedure?
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks!

1- Loosen top oem bolt
2 - Remove botttom bolt and replace with SPC bolt (SPC part # 81305)
3 - Remove top bolt and replace with bottom oem bolt

Are you pushing in the suspension towards the car re-tightening bolts?

The instructions from SPC did not include swapping the OEM bottom bolt into the top hole. Some forum members have done this on their own, others have swapped just the location for the SPC eccentric bolt, all with varying degrees of success, but all seemingly better than the SPC instructions.

I installed spc camber bolts last night exactly by the instructions. I got it aligned today with both fronts at -1.5 degrees.

Did you push the hub in before tightening? I think that was my problem. Been too lazy to fix it haha.

I did, but at the alignment shop they make all adjustments with the car on the rack. The car sits on all four wheels. The suspension is at full squat- making it automatically want to go negative on camber. The tires sit on plates that move fore/aft, left/right, and yaw. It takes care of itself. I'm lowered an inch, and when I first had the car alligned they did not install the camber bolts. I supplied them to them, but they thought zero camber was good, so they chose not to install them. That was december. I finally had enough of zero camber and zero feel in the steering wheel and had it remedied. It was a great move, steering feels great again. Vagueness gone!

Folks bringing up an old thread. Trying to obtain data since... Intend to use two SPC bolts on both ends, checking to see if there has been adverse effect (slippage or bolt breakage). Goal is to get to -2.5 with an inch drop in place. Did the crash bolt only and the car still plows on the track. Got just a degree :(

Lutfy

lutfy: I got one top crash bolt break on me, but it could be due too late noticed wheel bolts slightly undone after wheel change yet still keeping tracking, not re-tightening them as i should.
As for slipping .. people sometimes use paint to prevent such. It extra glues/holds bolts in place, and is often used with something that may slip much more, eg. if you slot your struts for more camber. It's hack, but it works :)
"two SPC bolts on both ends" .. camberbolts are already smaller in diameter then stock to allow play for adjustment. Use proper 16mm camberbolt on top hole, and 14mm camberbolt in lower hole. I wouldn't risk using 14mm camberbolts at both.
With whiteline's KCA416 16mm camberbolt top & SPC 81305 14mm camberbolt bottom, at stock hight i got -2.2. Not exactly your aimed -2.5, but imho a bit safer then SPC 81305 at both holes.
P.S.
To lessen understeer on track (and get better more even tire wear) of course right way would be to add neg. camber on end that needs more grip, front that is. But as there is limit how much camberbolts can help, there is option of removing grip on other end too, to get wished grip bias. As many advised, i'm running by 0.5deg camber less (-1.7) in rear and find that doing exactly that, changing grip balance more to my liking with stock.
In ideal world there would be also whiteline's com-c offset rubber top mounts to go along camberbolts for extra camber, but unfortunately they didn't manage to fix bearing failures thus delisted twins as compatible with those. So if you need camber more then what is provided by camberbolts in both holes, there are only two options - slotting struts or camberplates (unfortunately in absence of com-c only pillowball ones). Also, if you lower your car, it will naturaly gain negative camber too. -2.5 camber should be easy to get with camberbolts in both holes for cars with lowering springs.

Excellent info and thank you so much! Agree with adjusting for grip, however the rear end as of now is piinned. I cannot lift throttle oversteer in most places and forget about power on oversteer :) So need to get as much bite in the front as I can.

Last question, instead of using the Whiteline 16mm on the top, I have the stock bottom bolt (which is the OEM crash bolt) up top of now. Will I gain a tad more camber (all things equal meaning running SPC in the bottom for both- be installing the SPC bolts soon, currently have the crash bolt or bottom bolts on both ends)?

Cheers!

Lutfy

OEM "crash bolt" is normal 14mm bolt originally intended for lower hole. People use it as "free camber bolt" reusing it in upper hole, but i'd prefer something like Whiteline's 16mm one due: 1) camberbolts are rather cheap, 2) they should be of similar strength (both are thinner in narrowest part, probably by similar amount, but camberbolts have extra eccentric tab on side + specific washers) but 3) unlike normal bolts like OEM one, they are simpler to adjust and have small teeths to lessen chance of slipping.

I'm guessing that there might be similar total camber to get with SPC bottom + OE top (haven't tried it) but for reasons above i'd probably buy real camberbolt.

If one is willing to mod stock struts, then imho best way for camber would be slotting them + welding in some material/spacer, so one can keep using full strength normal bolts in non slipping normal holes in struts but simply placed now at offset position for there to be negative camber of wished amount.

Some aftermarket coilovers already have slotted mount holes, but that is a bit more expensive upgrade vs plain camberbolts.

As for not being able to put well power to road - try slight toe-in rear. My current alignment (with cambolts in both holes front & SPC lca-s rear) is -2.2 front, -1.7 rear, zero toe front, -0.1 rear. Camber helps with more grip in curves, self stabilizing toe-in helps with allowing opening throttle sooner. Just remember not going overboard with toe. Camber is not accelerating tire wear so much as toe is. Also some advise this for more stable rear.

For anyone having trouble getting the camber they want with the lobed bolts, make sure not only the bolt, but the tabbed washer, is in the correct orientation. If you don't move the washer and just rotate the bolt you won't get as much adjustment range.

Good stuff. Cheers mate!!

Regarding the traction mod, interesting read, have reached out.... what I meant to say was I cannot induce power oversteer and the car WILL understeer out of the corners if I give it full throttle. Granted I have stock (except for TRD lowering springs) suspension so cannot tune much will want to get a reasonable amount of camber in place first (in the front as I am wearing the outside).....

Will attempt to install the SPC bolt at the bottom this weekend.

Regards,

Lutfy

I'll be installing SPC-81305 this week! I'm going to try out the bottom holes first. I have vorshlag camber plates too.

Got these installed. Had major issues with those tabbed washers.
The. Lots won't go through as all. Later just installed the bolts straight with marking on the bolt (when the hub started to get max outwards for meg camber, held it there and tightened the nut to spec torque.

Anyone else had issues with the washers?

Cheers.

Lutfy

I had the same issue and decided not to use the washers. Got an alignment and they were about to get -2.4 degrees on both sides.

Awesome! Was able to get -2.2 front left and -2.4 front right with SPC bolt (without the spacer/washer) in the bottom and re-using the bottom bolt on the top. This is with TRD springs.

Rears were static -1.9 and -2.0 spot on.

THANKS a lot guys. This car desperately needs front camber and am excited for the next event where it will be a NASA (Time Trial) TTE contender.

Cheers,

Lutfy

-2.2 was not sufficient for me to fix uneven wear/ripped tire outside on track. I guess, one needs -3 minimum for that. Unfortunately that's above what can be got with camberbolts alone.

I'm worried about this... next event is in two weeks and I'm hoping someone has a pyrometer handy so I can try to evaluate my tire wear

It always depends on driver and setup but yeah, -3+ is usually the ballpark it seems

JoeC: don't mind too much. Yes, very probably camber will be insufficient .. but some is better then none/stock-ish "0deg". At least handling/extra grip wise improvement will be felt, even on very same tires. And while wear still uneven, better then if with stock alignment.
More camber .. one will have to start sacrificing something. Like irreversibly modding parts, eg. slotting struts, or adding camber plates, which will mean more spendings and less compliancy/more NVH, due all camplates being pillowball mount. (cursing Whiteline for inability to make non failing Com-C mounts for twins, would be hole grail for my preferences/car use)
Hmm.
And you wrote "TRD springs"? Lowering? And you have just one set of camber bolts, right? Then IIRC you should be able to go to -2.5 on lowered car, by installing camber bolts in upper hole too (Whiteline KCA416) in addition to SPC in lower hole.

Agreed! Good info. I managed it with low camber but granted it was NOT fun. Assuming it should get the car to bite a bit more and will manage to preserve the tires. I did put in TRD front bar (helps with McPherson setup at least with my previous cars on track).

Churchx, based on your experience, is -3 degree possible with slotted struts? My goal is to get a set of MCS Remotes and they can be ordered with the slots at the bottom. Wondering that get to the desired high two low three neg camber. Pillow balls or solid ones are too rough on the roads where I live, there is already too much drama in the neighborhood, last thing I want is a car with rattles and such as I will be driving to and from the track with occasional DD.

Cheers,

Lutfy

With extra slotting - certainly possible (-3.3/-3.1). But if suspension gets heavy hits, imho bolt may slip there, getting alignment out of whack.
I've heard though advices that using paint /fingernail paint or blue loctite/or epoxy in place, while sounds hack-ish, may help prevent slipping. Otherwise recall reading to NOT use camberbolts in slotted holes. Though then again, why not use full strength bolt in eg. upper slotted hole, and then fine-adjust with just one camberbolt in lower, non slotted?
Ideally one should weld on one side extra material/washer (above simple DIY skills/tooling needed), or use inserts similar to these (often used in rally coilovers (thus should be proven to hold up to heavy abuse) coilovers to get fixed amount of offset in slots (should come with different hole offsets) - you keep both reliability & adjustability.
P.S.
If you mentioned to be able to order customized .. why not ask instead of slotted to drill hole excentric to stock location in first place?
P.P.S.
At some point one should be careful, that wheel/tire, depending on width/offset, may start to rub, if adding camber on just one end (camberbolts/slotting @ lower end of coilover), not also at top (with camberplate).

Thank you again. Makes sense. I will discuss it with MCS when ordering the shocks.

Cheers!

Lutfy


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FYI, usually the paint is to show if something has moved or slipped, not as a lock tight substitute. We mark many of the suspension bolts and parts to show what has to be readjusted after an incident.

Is1ac: depends. Some may use it as indicator .. but some may use it exactly to reduce slippage/locktite substitute. Check some of those links, there people clearly are stating for what for they were doing that.
EDIT
crap. Seems that i misinserted for most of links same url :/. Going to fix that

Bringing back old thread...
 

Hey guys, prepping to install camber bolts up front. Form what I gather in this thread I have two options:
1. Run SPC bolts (81305) in bottom hole and move the OEM 14mm crash bolts to the top.
OR
2. Run SPC bolts (81305) in bottom hole and Whiteline bolts (KCA416) in the top.


Can anyone tell me if they are running the first option and how it's holding up, or if it's better to spend more for the second option.


Thanks!:thumbsup: