Factory Rev matching or...
 

Hello all! new to the forum but been reading all the great posts here at FT86club. Everytime I needed information on the frs, it always seems like i'll find it here. I hope to contribute with my own experiences. So just got my hands on a used, 2013 whiteout, MT FR-S. Came with 17k miles on it. Driving it around, I gave a go at practicing my heel-n-toe skills or lack thereof. Starts off good, I match the revs, no unsettling of the car. Tried it a few more times but the last time, I goof the blip. Side of my foot slipped off the accelerator. Lo and behold the car blips itself and matched the revs. I'm baffled, maybe I gave it enough gas to make it work. I tried it again, just this time without throttle blip going from 4th to 3rd. Pushed in the brake pedal, clutch, downshifted, RPMs climb, release the clutch, smooth transition, no tire screech. I then tried it from 3rd to 2nd, there it is. Rev, set, matched. Kind of a bummer, thought I was actually getting better at it but then again i'm intrigued.

So this led me to search the world wide web. Found nothing at all. I know that the only AT have rev matching and the MTs does not. I know that EcuTek supports rev matching but I really don't know if that could be the source. I don't even know where to poke around the car to look. What should I look for?

A few things that the previous owner did was swap out the emblems with toyota emblems. Also the factory wheels were plasti dipped black which I peeled off. Given the subtle appearance mods, that kind of gives me a reason that it could be aftermarket. The car is mechanically sound, I test drove a BRZ before I bought this car so I have an understanding of what I'm looking at. I bought the car from Toyota, came with the factory warranty and lifetime oil change. I'm assuming that if it is aftermarket, the dealership would know about it. So what do you all think? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

As far as I know...only the automatic FRS has a built in rev matching. The manual doesn't.

Ecutek tune can have rev matching enabled. Maybe the previous owner had it tuned.

Is this your first MT? The transmission will go up to the correct speed without rev matching but it puts wear on the clutch and wears out your synchro's too. In generally it's just a big no no. The 86 doesn't have rev matching, the only common mt cars I know that have it is the 370z and c7 corvette.

EDIT: if you bought it used and ecutek can enable it, it may be tuned. That would be my guess

Thanks guys. Not my first MT, had civics/integs all in MT. What I'm describing is not the engine revving up to match wheel speed during improper downshift. Theres is undoubtedly an increase of revs as soon as I engage the clutch, no throttle. if it is tuned, how would I go about checking?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TahBDnCv5FE"]Testing new BRZ/FRS EcuTek RaceRom Features - YouTube[/ame]


As much as everyone hates john visconti I'm pretty sure all the ecutek tunes use the cruise control as a control switch to choose maps

Start the car, pull back on the cruise control stalk and hold it, see if it goes to 1k rpm then let go. If the tach goes to 1k rpm move the stalk up. If it goes to 1k, 2k, 3k, and 4k, those are the 4 maps. It's tuned with ecutek.

When you're done with testing move the tach back to 1k and pull back on the stalk to set it. Keep it on map 1. You have no clue if the other maps are for different fuels, etc.

If you get confused watch some youtube videos on how to change maps with ecutek.

Depending on how fast you're pushing the clutch in, this is normal and expected behavior. Or at least it is on my stock FR-S.

Your stock frs automatic??? Manual does not rev match stock the rpms will drop to zero with clutch engaged and gas disengaged, unless tuned with rev matching.

Confirmed!
 

Thanks 86FAN, just watched the video and did exactly that. It does in deed has Racerom with 2 tune modes. :happyanim:
Before even finding out, it the car was set in tune 1. I Switched to 2 and completely different engine characteristics. Not knowing what it does, I didn't keep it there long. Thanks guys for all the help. Now I guess the only thing left to do is find out what the tunes are.

I'm pretty sure you'll have to buy a tune and ecutek license in order to even mess with them. I must say that's a pretty good easter egg to find

it's not a "big" no-no, but it definitely isn't a best practice. The synchro wear by doing that isn't going to be significant if you're a good manual driver all around- the gearset would most likely explode before the synchro gets worn from not rev matching all the tie

Wow lucky buyer!
Congrats on the new purchase. :)

He'll need to buy a tune and a cable, but the license is on the ecu. He just saved $300+.

Daymm I want rev match~

Gratz to op & happy holiday, it must be the secret santa.

You'll get wear on the clutch disc. Without rev matching, you have a lot of clutch slip as friction on the disc pulls the engine up to speed. You'll wear that mother out in no time. And if you drop the clutch, you also put a lot of unnecessary stress on the clutch springs.

Unless he has the dongle the guy is sol. He will need a license at least. If you can find a local who has a cable you can save some cash. Also your car already has a tune on it. You should be able to open the map. Also do some logging before using the second map.

Thanks, more than excited about my new find in my new to me ride. At the same time, I'm curious on what else I'll find done to it.

Kind of a noob to the whole tune.:bonk: never really dealt with it. So i'm guessing I'll need to buy the dongle, find out what the license is all about. Take it to a shop and have it ran.

Many thanks for the all helpful comments.

put 90k on my last exedy OEM replacement in the WRX and with a 100 mile weekday commutes and thrashed it since 500 mile break-in period, rev matching each shift is not always convenient in stop and go traffic.. it is a fun game to play while in it, though :D

watch how people track their cars, it won't wear out your synchros like I said, just accelerate the clutch disk wear. One also has bigger problems to worry about than just clutch springs when they drop the clutch.. That action is completely different shock wise to the drivetrain, especially the gearset and main shaft. How much is to be determined.

Also nothing quite like slipping the clutch on a RWD! Clutches are made to be wear items.

I get your point though.. still feel that 'wearing it out in no time' is TBD by the driver's skills and abilities to mitigate damage by how they drive as a whole

rev matching != double clutching

Properly executed double clutching saves synchros.

Properly executed rev match saves clutches.

Well rev matching is covered lol. JK, practicing rev matching is what got this post started. Also a firm believer of double clutching. Driving a MT is a kind of a lost art.

Shhhh! Don't let Shaky hear you say that.

I'm pretty sure you still need a dongle though, otherwise it's not like he can do anything with it

Oooh, but who's Shaky?

Hahaha... now I see you're new.

extra - "There's positively, absolutely zero fucking reason to double-clutch this transmission." - shaky.

I thought as much. Im gonna call in tomorrow to see what my options are. Also going to see what other goodies I have in the car, launch control and flat foot shifting. I'll keep ya'll posted on my findings.

Ha! Very new. Already, I like shaky lmao

qft ;)
He's right, though. Not necessary but can be quite helpful.

Went out to grab a few things this morning. Had the option to play around with the car in doing so. I got launch control and flat foot shifting. Pretty neat stuff.

Ok, now you're just bragging. :clap:

So you bought a used FR-S with 17k miles on it and you are now excited to find out that the previous owner screwed you and sold you a car with a mod that has technically voided the warranty?

I would consider myself screwed and would demand $$ back from the seller.

If you bought that way knowing about the tune, that is one thing, for the seller to not disclose this is fraud.
Same thing you will have to do now to get warranty work done on the engine if something goes wrong.....

AND now you have no way to return the car to the stock ROM without the license info.

I imagine a Toyota service tech has a way to put the stock ROM back on there.

Jeebus, Stu, are you ever happy about anything?
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...08/132/0c6.jpg

To each his own, excited? Yes,:thanks:
The whole reason why I bought the FRS to enjoy it for what it was designed for, pure driving exhilaration. I think I speak for a lot of FRS/BRZ etc. enthusiasts when I say that.

I was indeed planning on doing the same modifications and more in the future anyways, so to find what I found was... Yes exciting. If I didn't want something to modify I would of bought a minivan... Or something along those lines. So warranty, I'm sure theres ways around it, I've read somewhere, I'll have to look, that owners managed to use there warranty for certain issues. And after all said and done, with what I plan on doing with my car, warranty wouldn't matter. I appreciate your deep, deep concerns with my latest purchase. Nice fella:clap:
But man, this car is awesome!

I'm having way too much fun with my car. :burnrubber:

Sure I would just be ecstatic if I just bought a used car to find that it has had modifications that would mean my warranty was toast AND I did not receive any way to fix it, and no mention of this from the seller.

Kind of like buying a very high end gaming computer to find that it has Windows XP on it and no way to reinstall the OS.

:iono:

Toast? Reflash back to stock, call it a day. I run a Mac :thanks:

funny because my MBP is currently on Win8.. can't beat Excel for business :respekt:

Yes you will need to buy ecutek cable
or some tuners rent them out
or just go to or talk to ecutek tuner and they should be able to help you get licience info you need, their may be fee to reissue licience/dongle.

toyota/subaru Dealer will not be able to reflash car with ecutek racerom installed they are locked out.
they will be able to run standard diagnostics though.

Should you need dealer reflash you will need to reflash a "stock" ecutek rom with appropriate ecutek cable and licience. or ecutek tuner can do this. This then allows dealer reflash, but it will wipe your ecutek licience from ecu, they can be reissued though.

try the ecutek vendors/tuners guys on this forum

delicious tuning , moto-mike ect sure they will help you out it was probably tuned by them anyway

Huh? I'm not into high end gaming computers, but wouldn't this situation be more like buying said computer and it having an upgraded OS with more features than the original? Your analogy would be more like buying an 86 and later finding out the previous owner had dropped a prius engine in it and scrapped the FA20.

And he could always flash back to stock, right? So the warranty isn't exactly toast.

Not trying to argue, but just confused by the analogy.