Thinking of doing an engine swap? Read here first.
 

.
For Someonewhoisntme

Wow, lots of info. I've never considered an engine swap - 200 hp is plenty for me in the 86. But this was interesting to read from someone who is actually doing it, not bragging about doing it.

lol...
 

If you have to spend 25KUSD to do a swap, then YOU'RE not the one doing the swap.

You're paying someone else to do it...(and you're getting ripped off)

And motec... stand alone management is NOT necessary. That's why the budget minded do swaps with wrecked vehicles not crate engines. Then you have all sensors, instruments etc from the donor vehicle.

Yes it takes electronics and electrical know how and tools. Yes it takes fab ability and welding and machining etc...

It is not for the faint of heart or the feeble minded and if that's the case, you're better off buying a corvette or a cayman...

You remind me of those people with the stupid ass mindset that if they can't do it, then no one can. Or if other people haven't thought of it and tried, then no one else is smart enough or capable enough to.

You are the type of person that stifles innovation and creativity...

Luckily, you're also the type of person that drives the innovative to innovation...

Jaden

^------ completed a TOTAL and complete 64 1/2 mustang K code restoration from the ground up, including the cost of the vehicle for ~5000...

your troll ass knew it would...
 

What and you thought with your stupid troll post that it wouldn't????

I PROMISE you that I could build the entire LSX 86 including the cost of the 86 for the 25K you and some others that want to pay someone else to do the work for them like to throw around.

Jaden

wow...that response of his disappeared fast...lol

he's not doing it...
 

He's paying a shop to do it for him...

This thread is a "I feel ripped off and want to feel better about myself" thread...

Jaden

What crack are you smoking???
 

Who the hell is Hancock?

lol...I have something called priorities...a wife and two kids...If I ever have 25K to spare I might, although I'd probably just do it to my existing car with 12-15K instead.. or I'll wait 5-10 years until the prices on stripped twins, and wrecked donor vehicles are practically nothing...

I also don't have the time for it. I have a 50 hour a week job and am currently ranked 15th on the mezzweststate professional billiard tour, I build custom pool cues, have to maintain my practice for the pool tourneys, make time for my family, etc....

I will, however, finish building prototype superchargers I'm working on and you guys will see the builds of those and the results as time permits.

Jaden

Call up the shop tomorrow and ask them how your swap is going...:popcorn:

Didn't ask for your life story.

FWIW my car isn't being built by a shop. A friend and I are doing the mechanical and misc work.
Another friend who is a better welder than either of us did the mounts, headers, extended the shifter on the box, and the machining of the ls2 t/b I'm using. How much did I pay for that fab work? I paid $900 for the steel, and for the labour I gave him 4 tyres I had that he wanted, a $600 j160 gearbox, and a sparco steering wheel.

I don't actually know what the fuck your problem is. I mentioned multiple times that the major component where savings could be made was my $9k allowance for the electrics. I want it done right, and while I or my mates could give it a go, I've decided to avoid the whole headache and use a place I know will be able to sort it.

Your estimate of $15k even lines up with mine (less my motec allowance)

The key difference is you appear to be one of these guys thatll spend 200 hours doing something and claim its cost you nothing. If that's true, well good on you. I value my time more than nothing. I'm also not prepared to "pull the instruments from a wrecked car and use them" I want it done properly.

Get off your high horse. Fucker.

I don't understand why you were so offended by OP's post

Do you have a link to the canbus solution?

"I have a wife and two kids and I want to feel better about myself"
thread...:iono:

Maybe OP is ranked 14th on the mezzweststate professional billiard tour...

http://i599.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps2dea7392.png Looks like 16th place to me.

The info I have for the CAN solutions are:

1) MoTeC
2) Hydra EMS ( @Element Tuning )
3) Dual ECU setup utilizing stock ECU in tandem

This is utilizing all stock functions just like OEM (A/C, EPS/EPAS, etc).

Even though I think his post was a bit too "internet warrior" for me, that's completely unnecessary to post in this thread.

It hasn't been updated from last weekend yet
 

Hasn't been updated from last weekend yet :)

Jaden

Also, I'd like to agree with the OP on pricing. There's always a circumstance where something can be done for cheaper. To the guy doing the swap in their garage by themselves or with a few friends helping, you're looking at the price of an additional FRS.

The "issue" always comes up with, "you could have bought X car with that much $$." The end of the day, that's not what these builds, threads, or goals are meant for. It's about building something badass that will bring a smile to your face every time you step on the throttle because you built it and it scares you so much that your balls recede which makes you scream like a little girl.

THAT'S what these builds are about.

Jaden is a good sport. Its funny how people call others "Internet warriors" I just think people can't take jokes. People who made up that name are probably sitting on the computer wiping their tears from some hurtful comment they thought was mean.:iono:

Ok fair enough...
 

alright then I apologize...

I was just getting tired of people throwing around the 25K figure when I know that's not necessarily the case and it looked like you were specifically responding to my posts in the 2.8l v8 swap thread..

So again I apologize.

Also, yes I will spend the amount of time it takes to do something I want to do and not count that as labor costs. Yes, time is worth money and if it's doing something where I can't make money when I otherwise could, then I agree, but most of the people who do this couldn't be making money in that time and would just be wasting it doing something else, so I don't think it's fair to count that time as $costs...

Jaden

p.s. let me add that it might be good to instead of cart blanche say it will cost about 25K, then say if you have the extra money and either a)can't do some things yourself or b)don't want to waste your time with the hassle it will cost ~X to have a shop do it for you.

Yes, I realize that you DID say some costs can be cut in the area of electronics (motec) some typically doesn't equate to (9K).

I always specify that the figures I throw around are me doing everything myself.

You have to also remember, I'm in the union of California Socialist Republic and am not allowed to use Motec in my DD.

That would be POST...
 

I corrected that for you... I didn't create a thread about it...

Just responding...

And you are right, I am a little butt hurt that I can't spend as much on my car as I would like to...

Would I give up my family for that??? Not in a million years.. I am happy where I am...

Jaden

1JZ-VVTi front sump - $1400 shipped

Solstice transmission (same as R154 except GM input shaft and output shaft and doesn't need custom fabrication to get the appropriate shifter length for the BRZ) - call it $600

Clutch, comp clutch 1jz steel flywheel is about $300, OEM 1jz r154 bell is $340 shipped, once you figure out the rest of the clutch hydraulics and whatever disc and cover you want to run, I'll be generous and say $1500 all in

Mounts are $300 from Xcessive, although admittedly you'll have to figure out some sort of a trans mount, but I suppose that's the same story as the 1uz+r154.

Being an inline six, particularly one with the exhaust on the passenger side in LHD cars, you don't have to worry about steering shaft clearance at all, so you save $1500 on swap headers. We'll say a downpipe costs $250, and we'll say that the rest of the exhaust costs $400. I think that's an optimistic quote, but oh well. It's your number, not mine. In any case, since there's only one downpipe instead of two headers, the exhaust is simpler and easier to fab, which means cheaper, whatever the actual number ends up being. You can also probably use most of a normal aftermarket exhaust and just have a muffler shop modify the midpipe to meet the 1JZ downpipe.

Driveshaft, I'm surprised you paid $800, I'd expect you would have paid more like $300 unless you wanted something exotic, but whatever. I guess not everyone lives in Detroit where all we have are car-industry-related shops.

So we're at $5250 now, plus those pesky incidentals, plus ECU and wiring. I suppose you'll need a FMIC and charge piping as well. You also need to get a bigger fuel pump, run new lines, and add a return fitting to the bulkhead.

The new AEM Infinity 6h is capable of running a vvti 1jz, and has CAN functionality. We'll budget $3k here for the EMS and wiring. You'll probably have to swap out injectors for universal high impedance ones which is an upgrade anyway, and you can either use the stock sensors, or GM IAT and CLT if you're severely lazy. You might have to buy a MAP sensor, idk if the AEM comes with one. Grainger boost control solenoid. None of this shit is expensive, but it's worth considering. And that's with a relatively baller ECU. You could go with a megasquirt-III if you wanted. Hell, you could go with a stock JZX100 ECU and an SAFC and still make more power than a 1UZ with exhaust.

So really, a ~$10k swap isn't that unreasonable. The biggest things holding us back are

a) It's not clear to me if there's an open, transparent, community based effort to reverse-engineer the CANBUS stuff that most people are going to want to remain functional. A few shops have figured it out thus far it seems, but we need a sticky on the forum of how to get that shit set up in AEM, megasquirt, whatever.

b) People making mountains out of molehills.

Okay I to am FED UP with people discouraging people from doing engine swaps. I by NO MEANS make a lot of money however I am a go getter and WILL make shit happen. I'm approaching the end of my 2jz build and have final numbers + or - $300 USD.

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c3...ps175b744b.jpg
* price includes turbo cost

Some notes: help people who need help, you'll get help in return ALWAYS. PRICE SHOP LIKE CRAZY, build good relationships with that person/those vendors you buy from, if you have good friends/fabricators/vendors/etc locally work with them and get their name out there, it'll help out on both ends.

My setup is capable of making WELL over 550whp, I running stock ecu's(both FRS & aristo) with a piggyback. Stand alone & driveshaft shop 1000hp axles are in the works. My cars suspension etc are already pretty much where they need to be for what I do...

Chase your dream builds! If swapping is something you truely desire, go for it. Because a built block turbo frs isnt any cheaper.

200 hours of my time costs 24k so I can see where he is coming from.
Labour and parts are cheap in the US, totally understandable too.
Comparing motec to hack Setups is weird since no one other than vorshlag has figured out the Canbus stuff, especially from people that hasn't completed the swap themselves.

Nothing is as easy as it seems until they've actually done it so only two people in this thread really knows how much it costs in NZ and America to do it "properly".
I know from experience that a parts list/costs are never the same from start to finish especially for the first attempt.

How sure are you about that?

Just because vorschlag figured it out first doesn't mean that other people can't do the same thing and document it. Ever hear of open source tuning?

What do you consider as working it out?
Have you completed the swap?
Do you know who else has done it?
How did they do it?

Feel free to contribute so people don't have to pay the knows how, so all they need to do is pay for the items on the shopping list and 200+ hours of their time sourcing parts and putting everything together themselves.

I am all for the sharing of correct info so no need to defend or target me for whatever.

What I consider working it out: Starting the car with most oem interior functions and not a "hacked" up harness as you continue implying if not motec or whatever youre continuously praising. My swap is near completion, on hold for holidays/vacation.

I do know someone stateside who is in fact using a chasebays harness w/aem ems and ecutek to disable dtc's and vss/abs related CAN signals. Ran oem gauge/interior functions early on prior to swapping to a stack mfd. Chase bays has at least a pair of 2jz frs FD cars wired up, I'm sure you're not aware of as well considering you stated only xxx figured it out.

@slicktop was it also you that spoke to ekanoo running dual ecu/ecutek/stand alone as well?

Yes, I spoke with EK's tuner (Husam Tayib of MC Performance) before it turned into a full drag car.

Also, I said it before, Motec and Hydra are the two EMS's available that have CAN support for the factory functions as far as I know. While you may use a tandem setup for other stand-alone systems.

It's worth noting that I only know of three people actively swapping in a JZ motor that are not shop affiliated ( @OmarGC , @SomeoneWhoIsntMe and @slicktop). While there is another ( @Drift&Drag ), he has his race shop working on it. This goes to show you that either you're crazy or have experience. Give it a little while longer before other options are available and this turns into a go-to swap (or not, since it ruins the car, right?)

I'm happy with the 1UZ option I'm going with. BUT, I did consider a 2jz. And here's a the argument I made, that I found always shutup the knobs that'll try and discredit a jz in a gt86.

"Don't think of it as a gt86 with a heavier motor. Think of it as a brand new supra. A supra thats got more modern lines and features. It's also smaller, and even with the 2jz, it'll be ~200kg lighter than a JZA80. If there was a new supra released, that still had a 2jz, only cost $20k more than a gt86, AND was 200kg lighter, don't you think that car would be popular as fuck? Because that's what I'll end up with."

It's died down the past few months but when I first told a few guys about the swap, all I got was negativity.

The 1UZ is going to be nice, it's too bad you aren't in the US! Would be neat getting all the swapped ZN6's together.

Cool, shows us how its done, thanks.

You mean rh9? Yeah, I wouldn't call that quite as working it out.

Sure, don't know the full details.

It appears that only shops have done it so far, some better than others of course. Interested with your DIY setup once you've finished yours.

You obviously cant read and also must've skipped out on geography.

there's a bunch of JZ FRS/BRZ drift cars, but none of them are retaining any of the factory CAN bullshit.

Yeap, surely.

Maybe I'm unclear as to how the CAN bus protocol works, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't any ECU with CAN support that's reasonably configurable talk to the stock BRZ/FRS CAN devices once you figure out what commands you're supposed to be sending?

From what I understand, you could be using megasquirt 3, AEM infinity or probably series 2, motec, hydra, a fucking arduino, doesn't matter so long as it can send and receive CAN.

It's just that the only two shops thus far that have bothered to reverse-engineer the commands sent over the CAN network in the BRZ/FRS happened to have been using motec and hydra.

Or am I smoking crack again?

The truth is you don't even need to get into the technicalities of dealing with the CAN system to make everything work on this platform. You guys are way over thinking it. The dual ECU systems are not actually interacting the way I think most of you are under the impression they are. It's simply a matter of intercepting signals from various sensors to make the ABS, Electric Steering, Gauges, and AC work as normal (in the dual ECU systems).

@AZFA20 that's another point that I was going to make... just because a few people feel that keeping the stock ECU installed to keep the A/C and whatever else happy while running a different ECU to control the engine swap is less preferable for whatever reason, does not mean that it's somehow the "wrong" way, and that spending $9k on a motec setup is _THE_ definitive "right" way to do an engine swap in these cars.

Considering that you can get a swap running for the cost of materials to extend the new engine harness to fit the new ECU wherever you want it and splice it into the factory wiring, NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS is a little bit steep just because you think running one computer instead of two is "cleaner".

I like your forum signature after a post like that.


In any case, any info that my tuner/builder comes across we'll be sure to share it.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with running the two ECUs. The only pitfall is that you are required to have two different tuning softwares in order to make them both play nicely with each other. In my case for instance HPtuners and EcuTec. Some may consider this an issue but if you are like myself I already had both so it was no extra cost for me. As far as being clean you can make the dual ECU setup equally clean as a single setup. The only other thing that is a pro to the single standalone system is that traction control could be integrated easily but............................. who needs traction control? haha. In the end either route is good, just depends what you want to be able to do and how deep your pockets are.