Heel-and-toe down shifts
 

New poster here - seriously considering a BRZ next year. I did a search and really couldn't find an answer... Unless I searched the wrong key words.

I've read that when you apply the brake and the throttle at the same time, the car will cut the throttle as a safety feature. I suppose this is a result of runaway Toyotas and owners not being able to stop the car - which is a whole 'nother subject.

My question: If you are trying to downshift and want to blip the throttle with heel-and-toe technique, does the above feature prohibit this?

I've driven manuals only my whole life and my current car is very easy to heel-and-toe on down shifts.

Thanks. Great forum you guys got here.

BRZ is easy to heel and toe downshift. If somebody tells you otherwise, they don't know how to heel and toe downshift.

Thanks for the reply, nice to hear that it's an easy car to heel and toe. But, I take it the throttle does not interrupt while pressing the brake and throttle at the same time? It says so in the brochure I'm just not sure to what extent.

Should have checked it on my test drive.

ive never had a problem with the brake shutting off the throttle during heel-toe. mines a 13'.

I've never even heard of this before, where did you read this?
But no, the throttle doesn't cut off when pressed simultaneously with the brakes during heel-toe.

No problems when I make the downshifts.

Says so in the 2015 brochure: 'Brake Override System'

"If both brake and accelerator pedals are pressed simultaneously, the system reduces the operation of the accelerator pedal to help prevent unintentional vehicle acceleration"

I imagine the lawyers came up with this one after people were unable to stop their Toyotas.

It does, but it's not instant. It takes a few seconds, I believe. This doesn't affect heel-toe shifting, and shouldn't affect left foot braking as long as you're doing it right. It's good for people that panic and hold both pedals at once.


edit: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76034

This is only if the car is in gear. You can rev the engine all you want with your foot on the brake as long as a gear is not engaged.

If you try and do a brake stand, use the brake pedal while drifting, or brake boost (if you're turbo'd) you will feel the engine start to cut power. Unless you do the pedal dance that is.

Thanks guys, yeah, I was wondering if the trans being in neutral (for a second) factored into it.

No not at all, I heel-toe all the time!

The heel/toe downshifts work great in the BRZ.
Only after the ecu finishes it's 100km of learning.
So if the ecu is reset/battery disconnected it goes back to learning.
During learning the ecu causes sluggish throttle blip.

I had an NC Miata and heel-toe downshifts are significantly easier on it than the BRZ. I find that the BRZ's gas pedal placement relative to the brake pedal is higher and further apart than the NC's. With the NC, I use the left side of my right foot to brake, slightly rotate my foot so that the right side of my right foot can blip the throttle(AKA lazy 'heel-toe'). But with the BRZ, I really have to rotate my foot to blip. The BRZ takes 'heel-toe' literally. I have since then installed the Cusco Sports Accel Pedal, and it's definitely made heel-toeing much easier, and quicker. Just like it was on my old NC.

I used to be an NC MX-5 owner as well, and I 100% agree that heel-toe downshifts were easier in that car. Takes some getting used to in the BRZ, but still works great once you got it down with the more full rotation of the foot as you stated.

Speaking of heel toe downshifting, am I the only one who's foot is too big to do it? I'm only a size 11 and my heel hits the floor before it reaches the pedal. Im thinking about getting a cusco accelerator pedal

You just have to angle your foot different.
I wear size 12 and don't really have an issue.

I use the ball of my big toe on the brake and the outside edge of my foot by the end of my pinkie metatarsal to blip the throttle. I'm a size 12.

You definitely don't need the cusco accelerator on this car. Next time you're driving, cover the right side of the brake pedal with the left area of your right foot (figure what's comfortable). Instead of using your heel, just dip the right area of your foot (right portion of your foot will be hanging over the accelerator now) and the right curvature of your foot will hit the gas.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, suspend your foot in mid-air turn your right knee right. holding your ankle in place. That's basically the motion you are trying to achieve.

@gramicci101 @艾洛 yeaa I started developing the habit of using the sides of my right foot instead of the heel and toe of my foot like both of you guys brought up. I find it more effective to use your heel amd toe (from other car) but yeaa i guess this will just have to do

Seems to me there's a delay when you blip the throttle when heel-toeing. Coming from all throttle by cable for the past decade of driving, it takes getting used to when the throttle blip is not instantaneous.

That delay is the DBW programming. I find it infuriating. The car also takes forever and a day to drop revs when stock; also infuriating.

I heel-toe all the time in this car and the Brake Override System has never interfered. I also love having the Cusco sports accel pedal; makes it so much easier.

When I first got this car, I heel and toe lazy swinging the right rear side of my foot to nudge the gas pedal. Eventually the aluminum pedal's sharp edge caused the right heel outsole to disintegrate after a month of driving lol! Got my $400 replacement shoes for free at Porsche Design and now I only do a proper heel and toe action. :D

I've only noticed the delay at low RPMs. At high revs, the delay(at least to me) seems to be non-existent.

I'm with you on that. At mellow speeds you really have to nail the gas to get the rev match, but at high speeds/rpms it acts properly.

Yeah at low speeds, I'll give a small blip and nothing. The next time I'll give a slightly harder blip and get too much response. I think it's because there's a slight dead-spot in the first 5% of the throttle pedal.

I've heard good things about dbw throttle controllers like Apexi etc... Anyone try those? I have an aftermarket crank pulley (1lb vs 5 stock) and that made the car feel much better in terms of responsiveness.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Im glad im not the only one that noticed how hard it is to blip at lower revs. Sometimes I get it sometimes not. Higher revs its a piece of cake.

I have a hard time with finding a good foot placement. Ive got narrow feet :(

Anybody have tips for learning heel toe? This video seems fairly helpful. Just started practicing when the vehicle is not moving. Downshift throttle blip rev matching is no problem, been doing this for years, but heel toe seems to be much more efficient for downshifts.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4MS5pNGbOU"]Tutorial: Heel & Toe Downshift (read description first!!) - YouTube[/ame]

Much easier with Cusco heel toe gas pedal piece

Here's another I located with a different variation. Look's like the video is from the 70s...

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxGtx9xXhlM"]Heel and Toe Braking - Shifting Technique Tutorial: Hooked On Driving - YouTube[/ame]

This car is so easy I was a minute or so into the test drive and the dealer gave me one of those "oh, turn here" at the last second moves. I heel toed the downshift and swung around the corner and back on the power without even thinking about it. He was almost as surprised as me. That was a prelude to what I could expect from this car. It will spoil you quickly.

I have been heel toe shifting since November and taught myself to do it in about a week. Just remember practice, practice, practice. At first I thought it was difficult, until I realized my seat was too far back causing difficultly in correct heel contact with the gas pedal. Once your seat position is properly set up you should be good to go. After I adjusted my seat, the heel toe shift became just a drive in the park!

Just before driving every day I practiced at a stand still to improve muscle memory and then when driving I just continued to practice whenever I needed to downshift. This car is very easy to heel toe and a custom pedal is definitely not needed. Once I started to get the hang of it I constantly looked forward to more driving opportunities to practice.

I also found this video very helpful.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucwtXkCfcbI"]How to Heel-Toe and Double Clutch Downshift (with detailed description) - YouTube[/ame]

Nobody has mentioned getting the right shoes will help a lot. Low profile shoes with flat bottoms like Onitsuka Tiger Mexico 66 or Geox Monet are great for heel and toe / pedal modulation in general.

Or if you want something really nice then swing for a pair of these:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFgDrQU1WA4"]Made in Germany: the Pilot | Porsche Design Sport by adidas - YouTube[/ame]

And avoid these:


http://s1.hubimg.com/u/6811824_f520.jpg

THAT'S what I've been doing wrong!

:bonk:

My wife has something similar.
















She only wears them to bed, though.

*sigh* fine I'll go return them...