Please help! shifting for 2015 frs
 

Hey everyone, so last month i bought a 2015 FRS Manual and i must say i love the car. however this has happened several times to me. When i am braking coming to a red light usually in fourth gear trying to come to a complete stop stop, at around 20 mph i keep the clutch to the floor and attempt to shift into first, however when i try to shift into first it wont let me and i have to FORCE it in and it makes a grinding sound and my whole shifter shakes. this only happens when i am trying to shift into first at a high speed coming to a complete stop. I have my clutch to the floor the whole time im not taking the clutch out at all. Is this a safety feature or is theresomething wrong? thanks everyone

If you're coming to a complete stop, why are you going into first so soon? When coming to a complete stop I would clutch in then apply brakes.

Or in your case-- Clutch in, Down to third, clutch out, brakes, clutch in, down to 2nd, clutch out, brakes, clutch in and then fully come to a stoop.

Can you shift into 2nd instead of 1st?

I would avoid trying to downshift into 1st while moving, use 2nd if need be and move it into 1st once stopped...

1. Don't force it,
2. First gear is usually for dead stop/ below 10 mile only

3. Did you rev match? It's not going in cuz synchro don't like it.

Yup shift into 2nd if you are moving at all instead of 1st

I was taught to never downshift into 1st and to wait until at a complete stop.

Back then it was because 1st gear did not have any synchros.
I dont know about this trans.

Whenever I'm coming to a stop and I'm dropping from 20mph and below, I usually like to throw it into second. I usually blip the throttle (around 2.5k rpm) for a smoother transition. Hope this helps.

I don't see the need to shift down especially when you're in 4th rather than 6th, you can change down to 2nd but I'd rather just coast in gear. I'd simply slow down and if you're certain to stop, neutral before the engine lugs. If the light changes green before getting to a stop, go to 2nd and be in your way. The only speed I'd ever shift down to 1st is less than 15 km/h or 9 mph to prevent 2nd from lugging likely the reason there isn't a 1st gear lock out.

going to 1st is unnecessary when slowing down. if you HAVE to shift to 1st when slowing down, rev match your rpm to whatever speed you're at and then it should snick in to 1st easily.

Don't force it into first. I can only get the car while moving into first between 8-10MPH max. Just coast or use 2nd if you want to stay in gear.

There is something wrong, just don't "shift into first at a high speed" lol

Yeah, Like everyone says, if you are cruising below 12 mph you can safely throw it into 1st. Anything above that will require a double clutch to go into 1st safely.

Totally agree with all the above posts! Please don't down shift into 1st at 20mph, it's a terrible idea. 1st gear is designed to be a "get you going" gear. Once you're rolling you can immediately transition to 2nd.

And if you are coming to a complete stop, wait until you are stopped before putting it in 1st, if the light turns green and you are still rolling, even at like 3mph, 2nd is the gear for you. Unless you like hauling ass everywhere. If that's the case rev match to first.

I downshift to 1st on slow corners occasionally, like an immediate 90 degree turn. But only if I'm dogging on it, and then I'm heel and toeing to rev match so it doesn't harm the trans.

4th to 1st while in motion? Good lord... And you wonder what you're doing wrong.
Is it too late to get an automatic?

I never down shift into first. Just use the brakes.

Something is wrong: your driving technique.

To drive a manual transmission is easy.

To drive a manual transmission well is hard, until you understand how a transmission changes engine speed (RPM/crankshaft rotation speed) into wheel speed (input shaft > gear > driveshaft > axle > wheel speed).

Let's say your RPM in first gear is 2500 when you are at 10MPH. You will need to make sure your engine RPM is at 2500 when you attempt to downshift into first gear at 10MPH, otherwise you will just grind gears and do stupid things.

In this case, find a competent manual driver or watch more YouTube videos to fix your problem. No amount of internet advice via text will help.

-alex

How I do it

If coming to a complete stop just leave it in whatever gear it's in. When I am close to complete stop clutch in and neutral.

If coming to slowed traffic brake and leave it in gear until I reach the slower speed. If I have to drop 1 gear I rev match. If 2 ormore gears I double clutch rev match.

Identifying every gear doesn't seem beneficial in my opinion.

If you're trying to stop, throw it into neural. If the light turns green while you're braking/coasting, throw it into second.

Seems like you need to change your driving technique, if its not letting you shift into 1st while moving above 10mph..theres a reason to that. The fact that you still force it in..I feel bad for your synchros. Listen to others.

First is the trickiest to rev match for me. It depends alot on how warmed up the engine is. You probably don't need to for stopping at a light. My trick for learning was findin a street I could cruise slowly on. After the car is fully warmed up. Drive in first at 10mph and note what rpm you are at. then shift to neutral and coast a bit let the rpms go to idle. Then blip the throttle to just above the rpms you noted earlier and shift NORMALLY and smoothly into first. If its locking you out don't force it. Try another blip and shift. A proper rev match shift to first should feel buttery smooth when the engine is warm. Its the hardest gear by far to get the feel for.


I sort of had a cheat sheet at first 15 to 20 mph needs like 4.5k rpms and a warm engine to snick in smoothly.

This is habit of mine. I always shift into 2nd before going to 1st regardless of the situation. Try it. It shifts a lot smoother this way. If at a stop and in neutral. I shift to 2nd .... Then easily into 1st. If rolling to a stop .... I typically downshift and use engine breaking a little, or coast in neutral .... But when I come to a stop .... 2nd gear and then 1st.

There aren't very many situations where you need to shift to 1st gear while rolling to near stop unless you for whatever reason need to go right away to beat some other car or something.

But if you must do it, you need to clutch in and blip the throttle or do a double clutch down shift into 1st.

I agree with others, the car is telling you something. It's saying "Don't put me into 1st yet!". I would listen to it.

You can stop in any gear, there is on need to rally shift down the box, it's not a sequential. Block shifts are fine. 6th can be a bit difficult to stop in as you would need to clutch down at 25mph to prevent under reving. So an intermediate downshift to 3rd or 4th is wise.

The term some instructors here us is, "Gears to go, brakes to slow".

Of course this changes if you are "hooning it". I selected first for a hairpin bend the other day at about 20mph while deep on the brakes. A little throttle blip and then 'listen' to the synchro and what it's telling you, ie. don't force it! Push it against the synchro lightly, it will resist a little until it's ready then it will pop in.

You have to consider the shafts in the gearbox, if you are making a big rev change. If you were in 4th at 20mph, then your engine and gearbox speed would be low, around 1k. You then clutch it disconnecting the engine from the transmission and pull it out of gear. Now a large portion of the gearbox is spinning idle, connected to nothing. It is still spinning for 1k rpm (and slowing). You try and select 1st. The synchro has to spin that idling shaft up to road speed for 1st which at 20mph is about 5k. The shafts are not that heavy, but the synchros are small, so you have to give it time. Forcing it will make it grind.

The same happens the other way around if you red line it in 2nd and then (as that brings you to the speed limit here) select 6th to cruise. Engine speed 7.4k, required RPM for 6th at 60mph, 2k. So you are asking the synchro to synchronize a shaft at an equivalent 7.4k rpm with a shaft at an equivalent 2k rpm. You need to be patient with it. Hold it lightly against the synchro, don't force it, it will select when ready.

If I redline second to merge I shift 3-4-5-6. I feel it helped me learn to be quick but smooth with the clutch.

Holy shit.


"Why wont this square peg fit into this round hole?, I ram in in there but it just don't wanna go!".

Learn to stick...

First, learn how the gears in a manual transmission work, and how synchros work.
Second, don't force anything, you'll break things.
Third, It's not going into first because the gear speeds don't match up, you'll need to revmatch, double-clutch, or sequentially downshift.

Alternative solution: just leave it in neutral. =P

The input shaft is still spinning.. Putting it immediately in 1st causes it to come to an abrupt stop. Don't go 4th to 1st like that so fast. Downshift to lower gears and clutch in at a low speed / low rpm about 10 - 5 feet before the stop sign. Wait 1/2 second and then go into 1st. You're not driving very efficiently by clutching in from 20 mph all the time. Try clutching in at 10 mph in 3rd gear instead.

Otherwise, if you need to throw it into 1st at 10-15 mph (like during autocross racing) then you'll need to double-clutch.

That's what synchros are for. Rev matching with the engine does nothing as the clutch is down the engine is not even connected to the gearbox. You rev match simply to prevent a lurch on a down change that might destabilise the car. So only really necessary when at the very limit.

Double de-clutching is a technique associated with very, very old cars with no syncros, so you had to reconnect the engine to the gearbox while in neutral, spin the shafts up the new gear road speed and then re-clutch to select the gear. Completely unnecessary today as the syncro's will do a far better job. You just have to give them a little time and not get impatient and force them.

In the OPs scenario double declutching, ie. clutch in, neutral, clutch up, throttle blip to 5k RPM, clutch in, select 1st, *might* make it easier if done correctly, but it would take him a lot longer than just waiting on the syncro.

If you try driving along at 30mph, put the clutch down and hold the shifter lightly against 1st and listen, you will hear and asscending whine as the gearbox spins up to effectively 7k rpm. It's a pretty cool sound, but I wouldn't recommend doing it all that often. Though if your brakes ever fail on you, you can always use 1st gear and the clutch for brakes.

Double clutching into 1st works very well on this car if you need to do so during AutoX racing. I'd rather that then force my 1st gear syncros to potentially blow up shifting into it at 15 mph.

WTF are you doing?? That doesn't seem like the proper way at all to use a gearbox.

No it's not, but it doesn't stop you experimenting once in a while. It's not really any harder on the gear box that shifting from 2nd to 6th at high rev. Any large rev change of the shafts requires hard work by the syncros, but that's the job they are designed for.

I'm not reading all the comments, but I'm sure other people have said the same thing: Don't shift into 1st until you are at a stop, or just before you come to a stop. If you shift into 1st just before you are completely stopped, it should slip in easily. I've been driving manual transmission cars for 16 years, and they have all been similar in that they don't like to be put into 1st gear while moving. Same thing with reverse. Make sure you are at a dead stop before shifting into reverse. If you are rolling at all, regardless of direction, you can expect to get a bit of a grind.

Good luck. Keep practicing!

1st rule of Shift Club: Never force gear selection. If it doesn't want to go into gear, there's a reason for it. You forcing it is likely going to result in you having a broken transmission and a very bad day.

2nd rule of Shift Club: Don't talk about Shift Club.

You can rev-match at any speed for smooth downshifting. I heel-toe everywhere when I'm not lazy and just popping it into neutral. Most my passengers don't even realize I'm driving manual at first.


I can double-clutch a near perfect smooth downshift without even feathering the clutch upon let out. In NO WAY WHATSOEVER is this slower than merely waiting for the synchros. Synchros bridge small speed gaps, not large ones, and are thus much better for upshifting (not having to wait for rev to drop), and not as well for downshifting. Double-clutch downshifting forces the engine side of the gears to speed up to match (or nearly match) the faster spinning lower gears as opposed to waiting for the faster spinning lower gears to slow down (via braking) to match the slower spinning engine-side gears.

I have always wondered what happens during a double clutch, so lets work through it.

Lets say you are at 3000 RPM in 4th to downshift to 3rd you:
A- Depress the clutch: this decouples the engine from the trans
move gear from 4th to neutral: slider ring decoupled final drive from input shaft.
The input shaft is now spinning down under friction (was just at 3000 RPM input).
B- While shifting out of gear you started to bring the engine revs UP in anticipation of the shift.
C- You release the clutch: this recouples the engine to the trans input shaft so you are bringing the shaft up to whatever speed the engine is at
you continue to raise the engine (and input shaft up in RPM) while in neutral.
D- Now you depress the clutch again decoupling the engine & input shaft.
E- Now you move the slider into 3rd gear where the synchros guarantee input shaft at ~4000 RPM before engagement.
F- Now you release the clutch and are in 3rd at 4000 RPM


I just have a hard time believing, that a human can negotiate all of the above in the split second that I can perform a "regular" downshift.
In fact I think I can demonstrate a downshift with no clutch about the same speed as a double clutch.

I have a theory that people who are really in tune with their car do not even disengage the clutch all the way during every shift, but dont even realize it until the rare time where you grind and wonder "what was up with that...."

I get the theory behind the double clutch, but I guess I'll have to try it some before I believe it.

Double clutch downshifting is easier to do smoother than heel-toe rev-match "regular" downshifting, but it does take slightly longer since there's two depressions of the clutch instead of just one. However, in heel-toe downshifting, you hold the clutch in for a split second, whereas in double clutching, you barely need to wait at all while the clutch is out in neutral before depressing clutch again (assuming stock clutch travel and no clutch stop).

That being said, "regular" heel-toe downshifts require you to be much more in tune with your car to do properly, whereas double-clutch you can smoothly downshift in *almost* any car. It's really fun to see people's reactions when I drive their car in regards to "WTF? how did you downshift so smoothly?" LOL

With practice, it's pretty easy. Don't think of it as steps, but all one smooth coordinated motion. Just like how you don't go *step clutch* *shift to N* *blip throttle* *shift to next lower gear* *release clutch*.

Eventually, I'll get a GoPro and try to record all this...

I think it's a matter of "Hey look mom, I'm cool."

If I put really good ear protection on you so you couldn't hear the engine, I bet I could convince you we were driving an auto without either heel/toe or DD shifts, well at least you wouldn't be able to tell when we changed gear. I'd even go as far as saying I could probably get up through the box 1st to 6th via every gear and back down again without you noticing a gear change and in under 10 seconds.

Not saying that's always the case, sometimes I'm too lazy to be smooth.

To you US guys a manual is a special thing, so you go on the interweb and you research and research and come back with all these fancy and all but superfluous techniques so you can brag about them to your mates and say you "can drive stick the hard way". Over here people will just look at you and say, "You can drive a car? So what, my 16 yo. daughter can drive a car!" and if you say, "But I can double de-clutch!", they will say, "Do what?", you explain, they will say, "Why on earth would you do that?"

not even going to read half of these saying HOW to shift into first properly, you just shouldnt do it, when i learned to drive standard there were 2 rules

Rule #1 NEVER shift into first while in motion... not exactly never, but 99% of the time if youre in motion over 10km/h [6mph] id say you are fine to stay in 2nd,
"never go back into first unless you're at a crawl that 2nd gear would stall"

Rule #2 If it sounds bad, or if it feels bad, then it was bad, so dont do it again

rule number 2 is the easiest to get, if properly operated you should never hear any grinding from your transmission, if what youre doing is making it grind, do it differently,

annnnd side note.. 20mph is an outrageous speed to shift back into first, IMO, i suggest just downshifting till you get down to second gear, depress clutch and if you come to a complete stop sure go for 1st, if youre rolling at like 2-5 mph, sure EASE it into 1st, minimal to no damage done, it will go in, but dont try smashing it in there,
if youre going any faster than that, dont try to fight the transmissions lock out, just go really gentle on the clutch and throttle in 2nd and continue on your way

OP - never do that, thats retarded

Or maybe for SOME of us US guys, we have 30 years experience driving a stick including the #1 worst shifting car in history: The Porsche 914 ( I have owned 3 of them). And still have no idea why one would need to double clutch a modern trans.
I even tried it this morning, and all I can say is "waste of effort". My shifts are smooth enough without complicating matters.