ECU LOGGING BRZ GT 86 FRS - what to look for the basic’s
 

ECU LOGGING BRZ GT 86 FRS - what to look for the basic’s


This is a simplified guide to looking at your logs, for tuning guides see RomRaider site
RomRaider – www.romraider.com has some good guides (often WRX orientated though ie boost))
http://www.romraider.com/Documentation/TuningFAQ

For more detailed tune info google " bad noodle tuning guide "

If you post up your datalogs to www.datazap.me they are heaps easier to read and share accounts are free.

see also this display graphing software fron VIT Tuned

http://blog.vittuned.com/viperdata/

and the Openflash data log display software

OpenFlash Datalog Viewer




For Naturally Aspirated Motors


Knock –detonation – pre-ignition

FLKC – Fine learning knock control
FBKC (Knock Correction) – Feed Back Knock control
IAM – Ignition Advance Multiplier

KC Learned - This is NOT knock this value is the knock correction learned ignition advance it is derived from the "Knock Correction Max A" table in rom and multiplied by IAM and subtract FLKC. Do not confuse this parameter with FBKC or Knock Correction .KC Learned is added to the base timing to produce total timing.

If you IAM is less than 1 then you have knock problems, either run better fuel of a less aggressive tune (fueling and ignition).
Note with OFT V4 Petrol tunes the IAM initial is set to 0.7 (not 1 as in other tunes). this means each time car is turned off IAM will revert to 0.7. however if your 93 fuel is good then IAM should climb to 1 after driving car for short time. It may stay around 0.7 on 91 fuels this is ok. If it falls below 0.6 regularly then you may need to mod tune.

Also try changing brands of fuel its amazing the difference in performance of fuel of the same octane rating.

Ideally there should be no knock ie FLKC or FBKC however these motors are a bit knocky around 1500 to 3500 rpm.
Its hard to completely eliminate but anything over about -1 (FBKC or FLKC) on occasions needs to be investigated and corrected if its often enough to drop your IAM. If you drive in a very high gear at low RPM and jump on the throttle its going to knock.


Can be caused by running to lean, to much ignition advance, poor quality fuel.

The Stock tune will often pull -4 degrees on anything but the best quality fuel and result in IAM hovering around 0.7 or less, even of a stock car.


Video explaining IAM operation (DAM is same as IAM)
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7oa-EFUIfE"]DAM and Fine Knock Learn explanation Subaru, Cobb, Ecutek, ECU - YouTube[/ame]


Knock Correction
To correct knock and more info on interpreting knock parameters see here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61820

Kodename47 knock correction tool
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74890

Kodename47,s Tuning Tool Thread
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=75710



AFR – Air Fuel Ratio

Should follow the values in the Open Loop Fueling Table under load


Rough guide to expected AFR (Naturally aspirated on petrol)

Cruise and idle around 14
Overrun –throttle closed will often read 20
Under load low to mid RPM , AFR around 12-13
Under load high RPM , AFR Mid 12 than tapering to maybe high 11 over 7000 on OFT tunes.

If your tuned for E85 the O2 sensor does not know the difference it just reads stoic so the AFR in logs will still read the same on E85 (unless its rescaled by logging device)


If you have high long term fuel trims then you likely have intake or exhaust leaks or your MAF needs re-scaling due fitting of aftermarket intake. Or much less likely possibly bad sensors or fuel pump.


see here note these cars have an AFR sensor (will detect range of AFR) not the older type 02 sensor that only detects stoic 14.7


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WnM_NsOtd8"]Secret of Engine Problem Diagnosis- Fuel Trims Pt.1 - YouTube[/ame]







and here




[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cARQ0jZZ4Qc"]Secret of Engine Problem Diagnosis- Fuel Trims Pt.2 - YouTube[/ame]





.




E85 on stock car
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67310

Logging Wideband 02 signal with Tactrix with aftermarket sensor in second 02 position
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...&postcount=133

Rescaling your Front 02 sensor to be more "wideband"
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82875



Fuel Trims – Fueling errors - MAF Scaling

This is the ECU’s attempt to correct for MAF scaling errors Fuel density changes (ethanol content). Fuel trims will also vary with large changes in temperature and altitude; yes your car has an atmospheric pressure sensor as well as temperature sensors.

IAT- Intake Air Temperature
MAF – Mass Air Flow Sensor
STFT – Short Term Fuel Trim
LTFT – Long term Fuel Trim
O2 Sensor = Oxygen Sensor.

STFT – will vary widely under differing load conditions this is normal and throttle application

LTFT – is the average of STFT over time should be around +/- 3% of less if you have scaled your MAF sensor, if scaling not done may be around +/- 8% on stock car.
If you have changed your intake and not scaled MAF it maybe 10% or more this is not good if it’s more than 10%.

High fuel tims are corrected by doing Closed Loop MAF scaling

Also during wide open throttle runs your AFR should be close to the values in the Open Loop Fuel table in your tune. This table holds the AFR the ecu is targeting at each rpm/load point. In your logs this value is called Commanded AFR. The commanded AFR should follow your actual AFR measured by the O2 sensor under widecopen throttle. If it does not follow commanded AFR within around 5% then your Open Loop MAF scaling is off and needs correction.

If you have high fuel trims and you don’t have an exhaust leak near O2 sensor or a intake/vacuum leak after MAF sensor then you need to scale your MAF sensor

See here for further info and MAF Scaling
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64790




further info on Fuel trims see PDF article at end of this post

Coolant Temps
Should generally be around 90 C once car warmed up, if its getting over 105 C then start to become concerned

Oil Temps
Generally run a bit higher than Coolant temps but if they get over 120 C start to become concerned and investigate.

Will get to these levels on hot days if your giving it heaps, look at oil coolers if your seeing these sorts of temps regularly.

Good video on oil pressures and temps

[ame="http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cDfFJ5s6IDg"]YouTube[/ame]


Throttle Position

You will often see you throttle percentage at less than 100% in your logs even though you have pedal nailed to the floor. This is because its a drive by wire throttle and its logging the throttle plate position not the accelerator pedal position.

OFT (open flash tablet) generally logs WOT (wide open throttle) around 95%
Ecutek arround 80%

You may also see the throttle percent taper off at high RPM this is normal and ECU adjusting throttle plate angle.

ECU (engine control unit) will also back off throttle if you loose traction with the traction control or stability control active

Resetting ECU

Don’t just reset your ECU trying to correct problems it won’t fix it.

Interpret the logs; investigate the DTC or CEL codes then correct the hardware problems or correct the tuning problems.

DTC – Diagnostic Trouble Codes
CEL- Check Engine light.

ECU Info - See here for more info
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68328




There are lots of other parameters that can be logged such as Cam timing, Injector pulse widths, fuel rail pressures DI/PI ratios but these are beyond the scope of this simple guide.

Stock ROM (tune) update

If your Dealer will not update you to latest ROM see below and do it your self for a small investment in money and time, the stock ROM's are attached to post.

Tactrix- Ecu Flash Information and stock ROM's
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62332




Hope this is useful
If you have any suggested additions let me know.

(y)

@steve99 thanks again for the info, Was going to go out and data log. What is the best way to do it? 2nd gear pulls plus some around town driving? I know you can only do one log at a time but whats the duration?

OFT holds about 1 hour of log data

Generally its best to log a 2000-redline pull in 2 gear or 3rd gear is better if you have a suitable area to do it as this is similar to a dyno pull and the log will be over a longer period, 2dn gear is a bit short.

If you doing MAF scaling you will need to do steady throttle easy driving log over about 30 minutes at varying rpm and loads.

With regards to WOT driving, the higher the gear you use, the better the resolution of data.

@steve99 I have been reading all your post about the OFT :respekt:

I have a question about knock correction and have a log to post tomorrow. Left my OFT cord at work.

Current set up: K&N drop in filter, Cat-back, lightweight crank pulley (:iono:)
OFT stage 2 UL E85

I was running a log tonight and watching the graph and realized I was pulling upwards to 5 or 6 degrees in the KC Learned, which is the highest I have seen in my car, since normally it stays at 0 and very rarely ventures up to 3.

Most of the higher numbers 4-6 where in the 1800 to 3000 rpm rev range but I was still getting 2-4 above 3k rpms, all the while my IAM stayed at 1.

Is it just a bad batch of fuel? My light came on, drove 25 miles to pump. Put in two gallons of gas and brimmed it with E85.

are my KC learned numbers a concern? I am still reading and learning about tuning and data logging and the OFT.

Dont sweat mate KC Learned is not knock. its the amount of timing the ecu has available to it to correct knock via IAM/flkc at any particulat rpm/load, you have to compare your measured KC learned to the values in the Knock correction max A table at each rpm/loadcpoint to determine if you have knock its much easier to look at IAM FBKC and FLKC.

You need to look at FBKC(knock correction) and FLKC fine learning knock correction and your IAM.

If your IAM=1 and stays at one your knock is probably not to bad.

Then look at the amounts of Knock Correction FBKC and FLKC if they are less than one degree correction occasionally then all is ok;)

@steve99,
I recently got catted UEL header from ft86sf & am trying on stg 2 now. When I did 3rd gear pull for data log, it seems fine as IAM, FBKC and FLKC stays 1 and 0, but I tried 4th gear pull and the flkc look like up&down. Would you mind take a look? Shiv told me stg 2 may work better on mine because I have all other mods of exhaust. If this log shows any warning, I guess I have to go back to stg 1.

http://www.datazap.me/u/fa20frs/1104...zoom=3561-3691

Compare engine load between runs. You also don't seem to be logging ignition timing, you can ditch KC learn parameters.

As for FLKC, you pay attention to where it drops as an indication to where the knock retard is actually happening. Higher gears will produce more load on the engine, if the car is mapped for 3rd gear pulls it's possible that 4th/5th gear will knock. Depending on your feelings, you could let the ECU do its stuff and have more power in the lower gears, or trade off a little to make all gears run without retarding any timing.

Awesome thanks mate :thumbsup: I will get my log up in that thread shortly. So presumable i just have to change the data logging channels that I am monitoring and I can add FBKC and FLKC to the list.

thanks so steve

+1 on what @Kodename47 said, plus try different brands if gass before you pull any timing some are better than others even with same octane rating.

I just got mine and don't know what to do with it other than flashing it over to stage 1 octane 93 (stock car for now) lol .




Any other cool/tricks to do with it before moving on to stage 2 EL?

read the tune tweaks link below :)

so when i let off the throttle and cruise down while in gear and the afr is 20 i should not be concerned about that?

thats normal on overrun, injectors are shut off to save fuel

alright I was a bit worried when i saw it go up to 20 lol but figured that was the reason. Guess its running good other then that

Where should my engine load be during idle?

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

usually about 0.2 or 0.3 thats for NA car

Mine is sitting around 34 percent while at idle. Is this normal? I already swapped out the ecu 30 miles ago to. I'm turbocharged And my tuner raised my rpm so to 900 while at idle


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The load calculation is based on airflow reading from maf sensor so if idle is higher than normal then load will be higher than normal

Remember a while back you were helping me with cel p0018? Well I managed to swap out my ecm. Code hasn't came back on in 43 miles, thank god, but what I'm concern about is that my o2 sensor and evaporative system monitors are still incomplete. Since you know a lot about the way the ecu and p0018 work on this car, I was wondering you can help me with my issue

Sent from my LG-D850 using Tapatalk

If your turbo with ecutek, the ecutek software re-purposes the evap sensor and sometimes the rear 02 sensor for the flex fuel sensor.

The tuner may have done this.

If these are re-purposed or disabled ie the P0420 cat efficience cel code disabled then the readyness checks will never complete as the ecu code checks to the inputs .

not even ecutek forces readyness check to complete as far as i know

I just flashed the ECU yday and seem to have an LT Fuel Trim of 10.15% Is this too high? My car is stock Except for the TRD intake..

Brent

If the ltft is only high at or around idle that likely ok if its off 10% all the time even at higher rpm that probably not the best. Usually it an indication intake issue (ie intake changed without re-scaling maf) or exhaust leak especially high positive ltft.


TRD intakes usually pretty close to stock maf scaling wise. It not unusual for ltft to be 8% or so on a stock car.

Ok I'll keep an eye on it, that 10 percent did happen to be at idle. Thanks for the info.

I am hitting -1.3 flkc in 3rd gear pull between 6100 and 6500 rpm, is that bad?

http://www.datazap.me/u/randomthough...10-105-115-113

If IAM/advance multiplier stays at 1, nothing to worry about.

I believe it was consistently in 2nd and 3rd gear pull but I'll double check.
Thanks

If you're scared, pull up to say one degree in the rpm/load range, where your negative flkc occured.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Will probably give you some headroom if ambient temperature raises.
If you really care, try to keep flkc below -1 while intake air temperature is about 86deg/F.
Later, if ambient temperature raises and knock/bigger negative flkc occurs, pull timing in the iat/ignition compensation tsble.
Doing it that way ensures that you don't lose power later, if ambient temps go down.
If winter comes, do it the other way around for your iat compensation.
I'm on the phone right now, can't post a pic. But here, iat compensation table sits at 0 for 86deg/F and is positive for temperatures less than 86 deg and negative for temperatures above 86.

Ok thank you. I am going to try running 94 fuel after this tank is empty and see what happens. If flkc does stay below -1 i will look at making some adjustments as u have indicated.

FBKC & FLKC under -1 is okay. If the IAM did not drop -> dont change anything. You could easily de-tune your car if you are going crazy with this "knock"-chasing.

I also get sometimes FLKC of -0.65 while cruising. And little FLKC of -1.3 between 6200-6700rpm under WOT. But i leave it as it is.

Log your stock tune, it runs worse! And i am not aware of an blown engine because of knock.

Have fun and drive your car. Else you are going crazy with logging everytime.

I would try to avoid any corrections under WOT as the cylinder pressures will be at maximum and therefore is where damage will occur more. If it's consistent then I would definitely look into it.

At lower load it's not so crucial as the pressures are lower.

It's worth checking the FLKC retard value set in the map to see how much it will pull when it retards timing and adjust accordingly. Also you don't have to remove timing for the whole time that the FLKC is negative. One "knock" event will result in retard for a period of time due to the delays etc.

So it is more important to eliminate the FLKC (knock) at higher rpm's? Makes sense. Cruise FLKC is really hard to eliminate, i gave up on this.

I just pulled little more timing in that area and adjusted the timing compensation (iat) table. Shouldn't knock anymore, also i adjusted all this on the lowest octane fuel (98ron), just to be safe.

Not so much higher RPMs but higher loads.

I would much rather IAM moving around and having zero knock at WOT than the other way around.

You can adjust non-WOT regions and reduce lower load knock retard, but you need good length or many logs and use the data correctly. As has been said before, blanket reducing timing based on little data just detunes the car.

Understood. So knock based on high engine loads should be investigated. I am literally the guy wo panics if he see's some flkc/fbkc on the logs.

I will try a new tune tomorrow, i already took a lot of timing out of base timing b.

And the typically cruise "knock". I think the best would be to leave it as it is now? My IAM only once dropped from 1 to .88, it was the OTS Stg1 tune. Euro fuel is crap compared to the U.S.

I mean, it can not be worse as stock now..

Good thread!. Should cut down on the "how does my log look" posts.

What would happen if the kca table gets zeroed-out?

Stops IAM from changing. Knock retard still happens.

Does a completely stock car have bad engine knock? If not, what is it about tuning that can create knocking problems? Are there any mods which will most likely increase knocking?

I'm asking this because when I eventually flash the OFT stage 2 uel tune onto my car I want to know if I should be looking out for IAM drops.