Review: Bilstein B8 + RCE Tarmac lowering springs.
 

Howdy y'all! I am reviewing the suspension components listed in the title, which I installed earlier this week on Monday. I will not be discussing the install in this post, but feel free to ask and I'll try to answer to the best of my ability (NB: the stubs on the oe top hats are weak and 1 ft-lb of torque over specification will result in sheared studs).

About my car: The pertinent info is that other than the shocks and springs everything related to the suspension is oem, even the wheels and tires.

Front rates: 5.0k
Rear rates: 5.1k

On dry asphalt, the car is well planted for cornering. I now have -1.8/2.0 degrees of rear camber as measured on my alignment performed yesterday morning. On a stretch of twisty road that will be my benchmark for all suspension work, I was able to maintain speeds through the turns that were 5-10 mph higher than I was able to do previously. When the nannies are on, VSC is triggering significantly less than before as well. The car is very balanced right now in terms of oversteer/understeer.

On wet asphalt, the car is very twitchy and does not not like it. I believe this to be due to the stock Primacy tires having less wet traction and the stiffer suspension exacerbating that performance weakness.

What I have noticed now with the stiffer suspension, is a significant increase in drivetrain movement when shifting between acceleration and deceleration. As with any plan, they change; so instead of my next step being sway bars to fine tune suspension, I will instead probably work on securing the drivetrain in ways that will keep me legal for the STX class of AutoX. The Bilstein shocks do have a bit of a break in period where they feel a lot harsher than what they will settle to. That said, if you want a comfortable ride you probably will want something different.

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Redipping rear wheels, then I'll take pictures to show stock wheels with B8/Tarmac effects on overall stance. I'm not part of the "stance scene" and do not mean to imply any such thing.

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how much stiffer is this setup than stock?

Springs are 280F/290R, oem is 131F/181R if I recall correctly. The only significant difference in the dampers is the max length is shorter, but I don't recall the difference; all else is supposedly the same as stock though.

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Also in autocross, the lack of negative camber in the front contributed to a lot of understeer in extreme cornering situations. I gave since added -1.2* in the front and have my next autocross event this coming Sunday.

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Do you think it's worth it? You don't seem super satisfied with the buy.

I'm actually very satisfied with the buy, I'm a car mod newbie and didn't realize what else I needed to do. I'm still reserving final judgement until this coming autocross.

Afterthought edit: The car is now at the stiffness I first expected prior to test driving the car. Despite being a half to three quarters of an inch dropped, the car actually bottoms out on road dips less than stock.

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Hes on stock tires, so the 'limit' of the car before was hindered signficantly by grip. I feel he didn't get a great base line to compare.

While that may very well be true, I feel that a lot of the bad rap that the stockers get is partly due to an un-ideal alignment, which is not unexpected as they have to compromise greatly on things since the end users have a great many different intended uses for the car, particularly at this price point. I do plan on switching to 225 Michelin PSS on the stock wheels when it comes time to get new tires.

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No, the rap they get is because they stick worse than a mid-range all season and handle heat like a snow tire :)

What you running the shocks at?

I pulled the trigger on a set. I'll be moving from RCE yellows/stock dampers and 245 ZIIs to this setup for my budget-minded STX build. It'll be interesting going from a non-stock setup to the B8-Tarmac setup and should provide a different perspective (doesn't seem to be much experience with this setup on the forums).

Thanks for the feedback! Glad you got your alignment sorted, now it's time for some real tires. ;)

We designed the RCE Tarmacs as a small step above our RCE Yellows in performance for those that want a little more edge while keeping a fixed perch damper to keep things simple. Not really intended for stock tires...we expect most would run them with a stickier summer street tire. Also designed specifically for aftermarket dampers like Bilstein or Koni.

Our RCE Yellows are softer and more of a OEM Sport+ option that can work well on stock shocks for a DD and some light auto-x or track time. Still a good handling spring and perfectly fine with stock tires or something a little stickier. Better ride quality with those but the Tarmacs will handle better.

Yes Bilsteins do seem to soften a bit after install. I think the B8s are a good shock (love the gas pressure) but I wish that they were not shorter in overall length. Makes me consider B6s as the better choice BUT those probably have a longer bumpstop internally, so the B8 is probably the way to go.

- Andy

double post? what is this 2004

When I install this setup, do I just leave off the supplied front bumpstops because the Bilstein struts include an internal one? Just run the tarmac bumpstops for the shocks?

Yes, the Bilstein front struts have an internal bumpstop. You won't be able to use our supplied bumpstop up front.

Rear shock yes use ours.

- Andy

If you plan to compete in STX you may want to consider skipping 225s and going straight to 245s or 255s with a 9" wide wheel to maximize your chances.

I run B8s with RCE Yellows and I am also quite happy, but I also run different tires and wheels and a lot more camber as well.

Gotta stress this. My club has a bunch of different STX twins. Most of us are on RCE yellows/stock dampers and 245 ZIIs but one is on B8s, springs, and 225 ZIIs and has been quite a bit behind in times. I think to some extent he's just limited by tire size.

This is kinda my experience as well, I am just finishing my 225s on 16x7 TE37s and I just can't get the same lateral grip levels as the guys with similar suspension setups and 245s. As such I have some 17x9s with 255 Z11s on order.

My plan is that when my stock struts blow on my car (let's hope not soon), that I will add B8 struts to my RCE Yellows. Is this too much and it'll be a waste, or will the Yellows do even better with the B8's? By that time, I hope to have graduated to 18 inch wheels and better tires also.

What do you use for camber adjustment? How does the ride feel? I'm RCE Yellows with stock struts now, but will probably do your exact setup, wheels and tires included, sometime down the road.

That's not a bad plan. :)

- Andy

Thanks! I haven't really looked much into because it's further down the road (again, I hope the stock struts hold up awhile), but I'm just trying to see my options. I know some people have had issues with their Konis, and I know Bilstein is great and used by Toyota in other applications. I also like that they serve as an entire strut, not just an insert.

Raceseng cascam plates and SPC rear LCAs. It rides fairly well but our roads here are crap and I couldn't take it everyday so I no longer daily drive it, and drive a beater everyday instead.

From what I understand of STX rules, upgraded bushings are fine so long as the amount of metal in the bushing doesn't increase. I.e., TiC's Delrin steering rack bushings are allowed, while TiC's aluminum steering rack bushings are not.

With that said, drivetrain bushings are an easy kill. Whiteline transmission insert, diff collar inserts, and rear subframe inserts will do a great job of keeping things from flopping around.

My long term plan is to definitely run wider wheels/tires, unfortunately I have to dial back my car expenditures until I get a few things paid off.




Once A) I have the funds again and B) I determine the order I want to progress with my mods, I'm looking at Raceseng top plates and Whiteline rear LCAs.




Exactly right on the bushing rules. This is on my short list.

I do not have a huge amount of discretionary income to throw around so the mods are very slow and steady. I will likely need new tires long before I can afford both wheels and tires, hence going to 225 on stock wheels.


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Do you need top plates for just springs and the B8's or will camber bolts do just fine? And then SPC LCAs for the rear.

Out of curiosity, what are your rear camber values with the B8/Tarmacs?

-1.8 on one side, -2.0 on the other.

I am only using the crash bolts and have -1.2 on both sides up front.


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