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-   -   Drive-ability Issue (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65133)

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 02:35 AM

Drive-ability Issue
 
I recently had an alignment done which was supposed to fix some of the issues I was having but now I have more problems....

When I get on the throttle the car wants to pull to the left, I mean changing lanes pull to the left. The car feels like its also dragging abit and I have to use a tad more throttle to keep it at a constant rate of speed.

Recent list of things done to the car.
-SS Brake lines
-Anti dive kit
-front roll center correction kit
-camber bolts
-rear control arm camber correction kit

I had issues with the anti dive kit which I replaced a part that was causing it to shift the lca forward. But for the most part I can't pinpoint the issue.

gramicci101 05-06-2014 02:37 AM

Do you have the results of your alignment?

wparsons 05-06-2014 08:55 AM

^^ This, without knowing the outcome of the alignment it's just wild guesses in the dark.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 10:53 AM

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...2014_00000.png

stugray 05-06-2014 11:01 AM

Your description sounds almost as if the VSC is trying to compensate for something with the "electronic LS diff" type of behavior.

No chance the VSC lights are blinking as it does this?
Other people have had issues after suspension or brake work because the traction control sensors (wheel speed sensors) were upset or damaged.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 11:04 AM

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e2...gnmentspec.png
This was the alignment I got before I fixed the problem with the anti dive kit. The front drivers side is where the issue was.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stugray (Post 1718476)
Your description sounds almost as if the VSC is trying to compensate for something with the "electronic LS diff" type of behavior.

No chance the VSC lights are blinking as it does this?
Other people have had issues after suspension or brake work because the traction control sensors (wheel speed sensors) were upset or damaged.

I'm going to go swap the two front tires and see if it still pulls to the left.

wparsons 05-06-2014 11:20 AM

It's not the TC/VSC unless you're getting wheelspin or the slip indicator light is coming on. If any of the wheel speed sensors aren't working right for any reason the TC/VSC gets disabled since the ECU can't trust the sensors to work right.

When you did the brake lines did you also pull the calipers and pads? Are the pads binding in place and not releasing fully? Is the caliper sticking on the slider pins? I'm assuming you properly bled the system after replacing the lines (right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front - for a LHD car)? Is the fluid level good?

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wparsons (Post 1718507)
It's not the TC/VSC unless you're getting wheelspin or the slip indicator light is coming on. If any of the wheel speed sensors aren't working right for any reason the TC/VSC gets disabled since the ECU can't trust the sensors to work right.

When you did the brake lines did you also pull the calipers and pads? Are the pads binding in place and not releasing fully? Is the caliper sticking on the slider pins? I'm assuming you properly bled the system after replacing the lines (right rear, then left rear, then right front, then left front - for a LHD car)? Is the fluid level good?

We did bleed the lines but I have a feeling that we did it wrong, and yes the fluid level is good. Just to factor the brakes out what would you suggest I do if I did it wrong.

wparsons 05-06-2014 11:51 AM

If you didn't pull the pads off the car in the process, chances are they aren't snagging in their mounts unless they were before as well.

If there is too much air in the lines it might cause the pads to drag a bit, but I would think you would feel a VERY soft pedal before that would happen.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 11:56 AM

Just finished swapping the two front wheels and it still pulls to the left under acceleration. The thing that's driving me nuts is the fact that it goes in a straight line with 0 throttle.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 12:02 PM

Could one of the rear brakes be causing this?

ZDan 05-06-2014 12:26 PM

Swap rear tires left/right. Direction of pull changes => bad tire.

You have checked the pressures, right?

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 12:36 PM

Checked the front and swapped those going to try the rears now.

stugray 05-06-2014 12:52 PM

If it pulled left when braking, then I would suspect brakes.

But he said it pulls hard left under acceleration.
This can only be a completely screwed up suspension geometry issue, or the VSC is thinking it is detecting wheel spin and engaging the LS diff. mode which will try to stop the offending wheel by applying the brakes to that wheel.
So if it is erroneously detecting wheel spin on the left rear, it will apply left rear brakes - which would cause the car to veer left since that wheel wasnt really spinning.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 01:08 PM

So the left rear tire was at about 35psi and the right rear was at about 45. I swapped the tires just to make sure it didn't pull to the right more and it didn't. I'm going to swap them back and see if it still feels better.

I still have a bad feeling about the brakes. I think im just going to have it flushed and put all new brake fluid in.

wparsons 05-06-2014 01:11 PM

I'd try again with equal pressure all around before touching anything else. Minimize the changes so you can track down the root cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stugray (Post 1718687)
If it pulled left when braking, then I would suspect brakes.

But he said it pulls hard left under acceleration.
This can only be a completely screwed up suspension geometry issue, or the VSC is thinking it is detecting wheel spin and engaging the LS diff. mode which will try to stop the offending wheel by applying the brakes to that wheel.
So if it is erroneously detecting wheel spin on the left rear, it will apply left rear brakes - which would cause the car to veer left since that wheel wasnt really spinning.

If that were the case, the slip indicator light be going off like crazy. VSC doesn't stop wheelspin, so it wouldn't apply brakes to stop a spinning tire. TC will cut power, but not apply brakes, to stop wheelspin. VSC only applies brakes when it thinks the car is going to spin out, based on wheel speeds, a yaw angle sensor and steering angle. The LSD is mechanical, so the VSC doesn't have to intervene for it to work. The only time brakes are used for the diff is if you get a rear wheel in the air.

If the wheel speed sensor was malfunctioning it could be making the VSC think that wheel is going much faster, but with a 0* steering angle and the yaw sensor not sensing any yaw motion I don't think you would find the brakes applied, just power cut. Plus, I'm pretty confident that if the sensor is malfunctioning the VSC and TC systems get disabled and power is limited?

I only brought up the brakes because he mentioned it feels like it's dragging while cruising.

SubaSteve 05-06-2014 01:29 PM

Swapped wheels back and still no more pull. The imbalance in tire pressure was definitely the cause of the pull. Now I just need to find out whats causing the drag with my car.

stugray 05-06-2014 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wparsons (Post 1718738)
The LSD is mechanical, so the VSC doesn't have to intervene for it to work. The only time brakes are used for the diff is if you get a rear wheel in the air.

If the wheel speed sensor was malfunctioning it could be making the VSC think that wheel is going much faster, .

Sorry, I didn really mean VSC, I was thinking TC.

Your 2 statements above are exactly what I was thinking.
If the speed sensor malfunctioned (but the ECU did not mark it as failed) then it would look like a "wheel in the air" and the TC (the electronic half of the LS Diff system) would try to stop that wheel from spinning.

Looks like the OP solved it anyway so.... (to quote Rosanne Rosanna Dana) ....."NeverMind"

SirBrass 05-06-2014 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wparsons (Post 1718568)
If you didn't pull the pads off the car in the process, chances are they aren't snagging in their mounts unless they were before as well.

If there is too much air in the lines it might cause the pads to drag a bit, but I would think you would feel a VERY soft pedal before that would happen.

If it's his brakes pulling on the rotors, he should be able to smell a strong smell of brake pad after normal highway driving.

mike the snake 05-06-2014 04:02 PM

You should be able to drive for a short bit, and then check the rotors for heat. If the brakes are dragging, they're going to get hot quick.


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