Fbm or Avo
 

Hey guys
At the moment I'm looking into getting turbo soon for my 86.
I'm thinking fbm base kit with gtx30 and 1000cc injectors but that will cost me a arm to bring into Australia.
Where as the avo would be the cheaper option but I'm not sure if it would give me the power I'm after which is about 300hp on 98ron(93oct).

Any suggestion?

with avo you'll make 300hp on 93 oct with the right tuning and exhaust if that is all you want. full blown will be able to scale much further though if you plan on going with more power later.

The avo kit is working too hard at 300whp. If you only want to get a figure and hardly use it, then go avo. But pushing avo north of 250whp is not going to be a realiable track/often-raped setup.

There is a new AVO billet turbo system coming soon which will give more power. It's being tested here in the UK.

This ^^. The standard AVO turbo is going to be working overtime at these figures.


Also I dread to think how money AVO are charging for their billet turbo upgrade option when others (FBM) can provide a billet setup from the get go a third cheaper.

my car is going to be semi daily and for the track

so the fbm would be better in the longer run then the avo?

I daily my fbm setup with no issues and the power is nice lol ;)

The Frozen North

I would have to disagree with you on making the AVO working Overtime past 250. On 8 psi of boost I made over 270, on 10 psi I made 285. Stock internals injectors and pump. Also using 91 octane here in California. At about 12 psi on 93 you'll make about 305 maybe a bit more and the turbo is not being restricted yet. What might restrict you will be the stock air box tho but that is still to be found. From my understanding this kit is not in it's efficient rate until you hit mid 16-17 for optimal power and is rated past that. (Done Research) by using 93 oct you'll be able to add more timing which will allow your tuner to play more and get you more power. On the contrary if you had access to E85 you can go Flex fuel like myself and boost well over 390 Hp on 15.5 psi ;) lol and have no issues. 17000 miles on my car and had the turbo since the 3,000 ish mark and have no issues at all. You can ask my tuner @DeliciousTuning in a PM or directly on here and explain to him what you want and maybe he can give you a better understanding in what kit would be better suited for you. If you have any AVO questions don't hesitate to ask @AVOturboworld. Both kits are nice it's just what you want out of the kit and what you want to spend and the ease of having things being shipped out to you. Their a few people that bash on the AVO kit but never really owned one or been in one and just go by word of mouth. If you have any other questions to hesitate to ask me.

if you want 300-400 whp go with FBM, gtx28, 550 injectors. I think 1000's are too big for 93 octane at 300whp. I might be wrong though. I definitely know 550's are too small for 450whp on e85.

The AVO turbo's rated air flow is for 250-400 hp, obviously the 400 side of things is on E85, but 300 on pump gas with the right free flowing exhaust will yield 300. 3" are louder, but allow you to run less boost, 2.5" are quieter but you'd have to run 1-2 psi more to get the same power figures.

Between the two, FullBlown hands down. Don't cheap out as you get what you pay for.

1000 is too small for 450w and corn

No they're not

The Frozen North

Ummmm no.

I am at 300whp at 9psi on my AVO kit. 3" turboback and a panel filter. Plenty more boost to be had.

How I love internet experts! :mad0260:

I love fanboys

The Frozen North

I've seen two avo turbo kitted 86s overheating at the track. Both running 7psi. Both had oil coolers. One also had a thicker radiator.

Real life track usage experience. Not "look at my dyno, my car is realiable because it's been going for a few months as a light duty street car" experience.

Fbm or Avo
 

@diss7 is legit, he took off a sc for a turbo :)


Sent from my IBrick

I thought one of the advantages of the AVO and PTUNING kits were there placement for quick spooling and low heat? Now you say the opposite? Everyone's differences in opinions and experience in this forum constantly confuses the sh*t out of me ... I don't know if I will ever bite the bullet and get one.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

The big thing here is they are at the track, AVO is perfect for DD. I would probably go with PTUNING or FBM for the track

Odd that AVO has no problem with heat when beating the piss out of their racecar at Tsukuba.

Ever heard of something called third party testing ?

I know an avo kit that heated up within a few laps


Sent from my IBrick

I know of a lot of third parties who have tested. There are a ton of us with the AVO kit up here in the PNW. There was an AVO powered car at 86 Expo that was beat on in the 100+ degree heat all weekend long with AC going and no issues.

No need to act like a tool - if you know of one kit that overheated then super. Don't buy one.

No need to act like a fanboy and snap at someone who points out they know someone with the same kit as you that has issues. Do we know what cooling upgrades the on that was beat on had done to it? I highly doubt it was on the stock radiator.

The Frozen North

Im the tool in here ? ..lol I've ridden in most fi kits for this car and know most of their cons/pros; hell i even own a turbo kit. This car needs cooling upgrades to be tracked even in stock form.


Sent from my IBrick

I would think that any car that is going to see sustained track time will need cooling upgrades regardless of AVO or FBM.

As an aside I seem to recall an issue with the cooling fans on some of the FBM kits melting also.

The Ptuning kit is the best turbo kit as far as heat management, because of the turbo placement, and the option to keep the well insulated stock headers. It has a lot of IC piping though, which is the compromise with this kit.

AVO turbo location seems positive for heat management, but the turbo outlet pipe is far from ideal from a flow point of view, and this will raise EGT. IMO, this offsets the gains from having the turbo mounted where they have it.

All kits have they're teething problems, hell the car itself has had its own issues. All kits have they're ups and downs, it's up to you to weigh your options.

The Frozen North

The Ptuning kit is a great option. The main negative about the kit is the entry price. The intercooler piping does not negatively effect transient response when compared to another kit running a GT30 (a FBM kit which I have had the privilege to ride in). Many people in my area have the PTuning kit and I am getting mine put on this week and the only issues anyone seems to have is vacuum hoses popping off which is an easy fix and something anyone who has gone FI may have.

In my opinion the FBM kit is a top quality kit at an excellent price. Since having the kit installed my car has been driven hard and autox'd with no over heating issues to speak of. In addition to the base kit I'm running the FBM rad, have a turbo blanket, and hot parts wrapped. That said, I believe this forum disproportionately exaggerates the heating issues of top-mount kits vs other. I'll have a chance to track the car in a few weeks so will report back the oil temps I'm logging then.

To answer OP's opinion, I recommend FBM kit. High quality, awesome customer service, that stage 1 base kit is going for a great price!

On other notes:


The AVO TD05-18G "Taiwanese made" turbo is maxed out at around 17-18 psi, it is not in its efficiency range at 16-17 psi. Also, anything past 12 psi will not hold boost. Boost to 16 psi and see it taper down to 11 by redline. The AVO turbo is most efficient between 7-11 psi.

And that is fine, there are different turbo configurations to be had, and AVO chose an OEM+ type, which is similar to what we see from STI's. AVO turbo functions well for its intended design; boost to 10-11 psi, car feels good, OEM+, kit looks again OEM+, (except for when the exhaust manifold leaks). Quick spool, good throttle response, instant rush of torque hit as it spools up quickly. Anyone who would like to upgrade later to more power will have to fork a good chunk of cash to go to the next level. Stage 1 goes for $4500, Stage 3 with billet wheel compressor goes for $9000 (that includes stage 1 + full exhaust + fuel upgrades and a few other things). That stage 3 will be interesting to see.

All of that is fine until you drive a car with a turbo with up to date technology, e. g. GTX28, GTX30, GTX35. Cooler charge temps, incredible response, full boost 100 rpms (if that) than avo's stage 1 turbo, making more power per psi, headroom to play later on, and all for a similar price....

Then you scratch your head thinking, why settle?

Stage 3 comparison gets very overpriced IMHO. For my current configuration I have an $1800 turbo (GTX30 with dual V band exhaust housing), full V-band exhaust (not cheap either) everything fully SS, everything a one off (not mass produced), ID injectors and Walbro 485 pump, D3PE Catch Can, Tial BOV and WG. I payed less than $7500K for it all being conservative because I think it was actually less than 7K.....

1000cc ports + OEM DI's are plenty enough for 450whp.

I find it odd enough that I trust more third party testers than vendor testing.




The above is my worthless OPINION. Sorry if feelings hurt...

:popcorn:

I believe that was a limited batch of downpipes that were too close to the cooling fans. I had plenty of clearance between my downpipe/fans and they never melted or failed in 15,000 miles. I believe LJ @ Full Blown replaced fans and offered new downpipes.

I just can't believe with all the options that those are the two you are trying to decide between because they are about as different as you can get. A GTX30 is a monumentally better and bigger turbo than what comes in the AVO kit. Honestly, the cheaper base kit GT2871R turbo in the FBM kit will more than reach your goal on 300 whp on 93 octane and keep the price down a little bit. Why are you wanting 1000cc injectors when you only plan on running 300whp and 93 octane? It sounds to me like you really think you might want big power on a big turbo like the GTX30 and E85, but you are thinking about settling for a cheaper small turbo AVO kit and might be content with 300 whp on 93 octane. As others have found out, the desire to upgrade and run more boost and make more power often follows a successfull turbo kit install. Don't end up with not enough turbo and have to spend more money to correct the initial decision.

It is true... I wouldn't mind more power ;)

My downpipe was too close and killed the fans, but LJ replaced the fans and sent a new downpipe immediately. Best customer service I've experienced.

It's still close, but that is the nature of the front mounted turbo on this car.

I set my fans to turn on at a low temp and stay on, which, along with the FB radiator, fans, and shroud, has my temps rock solid under any load.

Even after running hard, and then stopping in traffic, my temps do not move 1 degree.

For those debating cooling as an issue with the AVO kit, why? The OP said nothing of cooling concerns, nor is cooling during track abuse an issue that can be attributed to one kit and not the other.

This says it all. Cooling under these circumstances is an issue regardless of what kit you buy. Pointing to examples of AVO cars being tracked and overheated is an unfair means at an attempt to discredit AVO's turbo kit, as neither of these kits address cooling concerns. Both leave this to the consumer to sort out.

I don't understand why people feel the need to slight credible kits at every opportunity, but its really not useful to the community to interject unrelated and unproductive statements into every 'which kit' thread. Maybe its best to keep the statements of bias to ourselves and try harder to simply answer questions asked to help improve community knowledgeability.

If either design should raise concern regarding heat, its the front mount design, which adds a significant source of heat to the front of the engine compartment. But again, this isn't a concern the OP came to the community asking about. He came to the community to ask about power output, and instead he's getting a thread full of bickering.

If OP is asking for advice, he should be given the full story on both kits shouldn't he? So that means the whole nine yards. How it makes power, what are the limits, can it grow later on, how bad is cooling needed, what parts can fail, has anyone had issues with either kit....

So, what again is wrong with bringing up the times when FBM kit has overheated and times when AVO kit has overheated? BOTH kits require cooling upgrades if anyone is really wanting to track the car with them. It's not only "top mounted kits".

Or for example, what is wrong of bringing up quality concerns about both kits? We are looking to give OP the real story, not the sugar coated, fairy-tailed one.

The truth might hurt, but it is the truth nonetheless.

I can handle the truth