How about a innovate thread for those who are thinking of buying one
 

Since we can't post in the only innovate thread do we need a thread that warns folks of problems and praises the good qualities?

Reading the innovate owners thread since last summer was enough reason not to go with an innovate.

Please elaborate

I'm considering it, not really power hungry myself. One thing I really like is that it's one of the easiest SC to replace belt if ever it snaps on the road. Of course you have to have a spare with you in the car.

The tendology compilation I think got most of the issues.

Belts snapping, people resealing or replacing the plastic elbows, pulley issue, ic leaks, oil level, etc. all the kits have had their issues (other than Jackson). The innovate issues appear the most significant, vortechs big ones appear to be corrected and kW had a pile of minor growing pains

The numbers on e85 and a small pulley do look great, and the low end response Appears fantastic regardless of setup. But still too many potential complications for the lack of headroom relative to the other options.

S1 innovate has a price and instal simplicity advantage, no doubt. But once you start looking at the ic kit the price has no real advantage relative to the other kits. Without the price advantage, especially with the Rotorex kits on the market the innovate just loses the majority of its appeal.

When I was looking I could barely find a discount on a s2 innovate kit, yet the price movement on all the others gave them a lower real price than the innovate despite having a higher msrp.

It says you can participate in that thread if you plan to order one..
Doesn't make much sense to start another thread when so much info is already there..

Good luck finding any aftermarket kit without a few issues here and there.

You obviously didn't read very well, because there are a TON of us users that are completely happy with our kit. If you can't work on your own car, or expect issues putting forced induction on a car that wasn't from the factory, don't even bother getting any kind of kit and keep your car NA and do bolt ons.

I've had a few MINOR issues. The only big one was the aftermarket map sensor causing issues with the intercooler kit. Everything else were super simple fixes. The loose fittings have been addressed by innovate btw. I had that issue and the leaking line on the intercooler kit, which they sent me replacement clamps which took me 10 minutes to swap.

I totally understand what you're saying, but that all underscores a significant QC oversight on Innovate's part that we've seen across all areas of this kit - problems that I don't want to deal with (and you guys shouldn't have had to in the first place), even if I am capable of working on the car.

While the low-end may be superior, it just isn't making the power up top - it seems like you folks are maxing it out or can't get it to max out with IC due to that map issue? It just makes me uncomfortable enough to take it off my list until a revision or bigger blower come out.

What QC issues are you talking about? I honestly have had basically zero issues with this thing, and I was one of the first buyers in the first batch.

I had two bolts snap on me, but they sent me like 300000 new ones with the intercooler kit, so it didn't even matter. I can see that as a QC issue, but I don't know where else you are seeing issues.

Not arguing, i'm genuinely asking, haha.

The rest of the issues that you guys have seen, that were mentioned in a previous post. Sure they likely won't occur, but *shrug* who wants to deal with that? I'll leave my shit stock.

A) I clearly said all the kits have had their issues and growing pains

B) you obviously didn't read the owners thread very well because the innovate kit has had the most significant of the documented issues per
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=3822

C). I'm on the kW kit, my issues basically consisted of shitty instructions. I paid several hundred less than I was quoted for an equivalent innovate kit, despite the higher msrp.

I agree they all have growing pains. Vortech seems to have done the most to correct them, clearly off your response innovate is making strides, kW says they are but who knows they clearly move at their own pace, and Jackson hasn't really had any detractors other than the routing looking like doo doo. Hks and any other kit don't count. Nobody actually buys them.

If you had bothered to read rather than defending your perceived honor and purchasing decision you'd have understood that my statement was more based around the value of the innovate kit street price relative to the rest of the market after factoring the significance of issues and headroom. For awhile the innovate was my top choice, belt paranoia and pricing ended up changing the decision though.

I did not try fuck your sister. Please remove the stick from your ass before I have to make another account.

Maybe you should open up your eyes, since I post almost daily in the innovate thread.

Pretty apparent now that I know you are a KW owner you are just another one on the bandwagon for their said kit. I do not deny the issues this kit has, but they are minor to me bc I know wtf I'm doing when working on a car. I have had basically no issues with this kit, all minor, which can happen on any damn kit you buy. Just so you know I really like the KW kit and if I wasn't so impatient I would have probably got that instead.

The pricing has nothing to do with this. If you think there's a better kit for the money (which you do since you did not purchase it) then go ahead. Not everyone is looking for the best hp/dollar ratio. I think this kit at the power level is great as my car is a DD. If I want to upgrade, I'll sell the damn thing and get something else.

You should look into anger management. I said nothing to warrant your 10 year old outburst.

Pricing has everything to do with the FI game, IMO. However, I suggest the both of you step back and don't turn this thread into a doody pile, please.

Goose is the one that had most of the belt issues, wasn't he? I thought he attributes his issues to his tensioner, not the kit. If so, that's a moot point.

Replacing the fitting seems to be an issue, @xxscaxx could you elaborate on how they've taken care of this?

The allen head bolts breaking and being of subpar quality is a big issue in my mind, and I haven't heard of any fix for that.

And then there's the coolant leaks that keep croping up.

xxscaxx, if you know sepcifics about fixes for these, there's a lot of us that are still on the fense about this kit that would love to know

You toned down your original reply while the forum had a hiccup. You came on aggressive with your you clearly didn't read the fucking thread my kit is great comment, and now are deflecting when the response was aggressive in kind.

Just because you haven't had issues doesn't mean others haven't. I followed the innovate owners thread intensely before making a decision and like I said had the factors lined up I would have purchased an innovate. Price is always a factor, innovate s2 unfortunately doesn't present the value of the other kits when considering real world price, posted issues and headroom. Had it presented itself as a better value I would own one.

I installed my kit too, that's cool we can both kinda turn a wrench.

Once again. No where did I say it's a terrible kit. What I did say, from the perspective of someone looking to make a purchasing decision (clearly the goal of this thread) the kit presents the least value (outside of hks) when all factors are considered.

I just replaced my allen head bolts with higher quality ones from my hardware store. Cost me about $5-10, and took less than 10min to replace. The bolt sizing is outlined in the install manual.

I honestly said nothing to warrant his stupid little outburst lol.

Anyways, I think the innovate kit is specific to certain people is what i'm saying, that don't want to go overboard with power. I could have bought a turbo kit and almost did, but this car is too new to just throw 500whp at it everyday.

I don't look at the price, I look at what I want in the kit first. Sure it was cheaper, but I knew going into it that with the intercooler kit i'd be probably even with a bunch of other kits, and I was ok with that. I don't mind spending the money, its a car, thats what we all do. If I sell it, I sell it, and move on with something else.

Calum - Innovate said the reason the fittings were coming loose was because after the elbow was heat cycled they would cause them to move. They now heat cycle (i'm assuming the back elbow piece which hold the fittings on) it and claim no more issues.

Even so, all you would have to do before putting the supercharger on is remove those 3 fittings, throw teflon on them, and tighten them back up. Its only a PITA once the supercharger is on because theres no room to get those off without taking the elbow off the back off (which would literally take 2 minutes with the sc on a bench).

I can't really comment on the allen bolts. Two of mine broke after taking the supercharger off and putting the intercooler on there. Maybe I over torqued them? idk. But they did send me like 20 new bolts.

I'm not sure who else had a coolant leak, but this only applies obviously if you go with the intercooler kit. I happened to have a leak at the t fitting up top that they preclamp prior to sending it to you. I called Innovate, and they sent me worm drive clamps that I then used to fix it, and haven't had an issue since. So those pre installed clamps must have not been tight enough.

One or two owners have had some bad luck (like Ryan86) and had a whole slew of issues happen. Others, like me, nothing really that would make me kick and scream about.

But basically all these issues can be nipped right off the bat now that the information has been out. It was why I was kind of pissed when I found out that aftermarket map sensors are causing issues with the intercooler kit on there, since tuners and others knew about it, yet I saw nothing posted about it (or if it was, it wasn't made to be a big deal - maybe i missed it, the Innovate thread IS pretty long).

Replacing the bolts doesn't bug me. It's more a principle thing. If they're willing to sell kits with subpar parts that are easily viewable, what are they doing on the inside? It might be that those bolts are the only thing that's wrong, but it might not be.

Price is a factor. I look at what I want, then I look at the price and make a value-conscious decision. This will vary between people; I have no issue throwing down $7-8K for a Full Blown GTX28 kit when I can afford it, but is that the best choice? Is this kit at half the price of a Full Blown kit with upgrades worth it? I get what you're saying, but I'm saying price is going to be a factor for most people.

Yup. It should be at least grade what, 8.8? All the shit on my car is grade 10.9 anyway. Do I need that much yield strength? No. Do I want that much yield strength? Yes.

Another account eh. What was your previous account?

Thats great, you have your reasons for not purchasing it, and I respect that.

I said you didn't read the thread very well, thats VERY different from saying what you are accusing me of above. Maybe you should learn to stop reading into things as a personal attack because I meant nothing by my comment. Seriously, stop arguing with me. That thread is for owners, of course people will post shortcomings or issues, thats the whole entire point of that thread. 3 months down the road issues may arise with the KW kit, but will I think its shit? no. Maybe I am too loose in the way I think about parts/money/etc, but I just try to enjoy my car and the parts I put on them for what it is. Every aftermarket part you put on a car is wasted money, so I really am over that price value sort of crap lol...but for right now, I really love my innovate kit. I'm sure I wouldn't if I got a ride in a turbo'd frs/brz though :lol:

Just curious, what headroom are you looking for? What does KW offer in regards to headroom without upgrading to the c38 unit? No doubt that the innovate is tapped out at pretty much 300whp, but once I am finally tuned on flexfuel and hope to be around that, if its not enough I will wait for the 210+ to come out and upgrade. Anything more in power and I will just go with a turbo kit if I desire.

I understand what you are saying, and completely agree with you. There is rarely admittance on Innovate's part, for subpar bolts or wrong clamps. This is my biggest gripe and worry with Innovate.

However, I can say that I haven't had any issues (aside from two bolt heads snapping), so I've been very happy.

Yes, although the FBM GTX28 kit doesn't cost that much.

Yes, 8.8 as a minimum.

"Premium"

You did edit the you didn't read the fucking thread bit.

Regardless.

Power is something people get used to and then want more of. 300whp innovate dynos are e85 and well modded. Rotorex dynos look to be around the 260whp range on stock cars. Add in a smaller pulley, fueling and exhaust bits 300whp should be doable without e85. Vortech iirc is king for headroom

Right now Kit tune and nearly stock is plenty, as that gets dull there will be some room for growth.

It is premium, but I am sure LJ can get you a better price than $7k.

@Model Citizen - Dude, I did not edit my first post...so IDK what you are talking about. Really, just let it be man.

I admit, 300whp on pump sounds awesome. I kind of wish thats where this kit was, but then again it will be once the 210+ is released.

Where did you see that information? Has Innovate actually talked about the 210+ or just Sprintex?

Just a nobody


But I'm trying ringo, I'm trying real hard.

I think Bill from Delicious mentioned achieving around 330whp with the 210+. I have seen a few other posts about a 30-40whp upgrade from the original.

I'm only going by hearsay. Sorry should have mentioned that lol

I'm waiting, I was told 4-6 weeks ETA for here in the UK.... Better efficiency at the top end will put it right in line with the other S/C kits hopefully.

I was told a few months by someone, so I'm just not holding my breath on it lol. When it comes out it comes, but maybe you being in the UK you probably get first dibs. Looking forward to seeing results and a price for it.

I was told I could effectively sell back my 210 blower unit to my tuner in exchange for the new 210+. Obviously I would be charged for it's use but seeing as I know someone who is tempted by my 2nd hand unit, which has less than 1k on it currently, then it could work out nicely for all parties.

Interesting..I am guessing there will be no taking care of the early adopters, but I hope so.

You want to be careful with upgrading bolts on your own. A good manufacturer will take into account all the factors of the hardware they provide. One of those things is bolt stretch when torqued down. This affects how well the bolt holds in place when tightened down. Another is that they have to take into account what happens if you over-torque. Better to snap a bolt you can get out with the right tools than to strip a tapped hole because the bolt you used is stronger than what they designed around and end up having to heli-coil a blower, especially when there might not be room to drill the hole out.

My tuner has just told me that Sprintex are putting up their prices. This could be an issue for exchanges. Might mean 2nd hand kits hold their value though if you want to sell on.

0 issue innovate owner here! Been following the thread for a while and I honestly have not seen any major issues. I guess im lucky, 10k miles on the kit and havent touched it since. Not sure how you can compare the innovate kits to other kits in terms of power delivery, they just arent the same. My goal was 250whp and for that I dont think there is a much better kit, if you want a lot more then it may not be for you.

How about a thread for those who are thinking about those who are thinking about buying one?

Luckily the bolts provided basically "float" in the holes. You can literally use a pick and magnet and get them out quite easily. When the two Allen heads snapped on mine it took me 10 minutes to remove them.