2014 86CUP Challenge to NorCal with NCRC
 

Working with @CSG_Mike and co, along with NCRC, how does the NorCal group feel about bringing the series to NCRC track events??? Give feedback, opinions, what you may want to see to make it happen, etc.

Rules are:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52982

2014 86CUP Board Members: SoCal
@CSG Mike @mav1178 @ImperiousRex

It's been proposed to NCRC to host NorCal's 86Cup and they were inviting to the idea. So, I've started this thread to guage the interests of our NorCal community. Above link is the current rulesets to help put your car in the appropriate class (Stock, Street, Modified, and Super Modified). This Challenge is not about how deep your pocket is but how you can handle your FR-S or BRZ on the track.

Current layout/format:
Participation is voluntary. If you choose to participate, there will be extra stuff that will be required of you. 1) Fill out a seperate sheet that NCRC requires and that I will need to properly categorize your FR-S/BRZ. 2) Transponder rental (currently $25 per day) NCRC will provide the transponder (transponder # will be recorded). And any other rules set forth by NCRC to distinquish you from others.

Registering with NCRC will be as normal as you would have done in the past. All of the 86Cup participation will be dealt with the week(s) before the event and/or during check-in at the track. Currently, NCRC does not have an "only 86CUP session" but depending on the level of participation, it could happen. Register as normal and choose your appropriate run group. Your run-group is the level of experience you have with NCRC and/or being on the track. Your run-group is given a particular color wrist band, which you will receive in the mail prior to the track day.

NCRC will have 5 sessions (~20 min each session). This is the time when "YOU" or your wrist band color is allowed on the track. Here are the sessions for the 86CUP Challenge:
Session 1: NOT a recorded session.
Session 2: Recorded session! Fastest lap counts.
Session 3: Recorded session! Fastest lap counts.
Session 4: Recorded session! Fastest lap counts.
Session 5: NOT a recorded session.

3 of 5 sessions are recorded because many 86 owners are just getting into tracking. 4 or 5 sessions may be overkill for some, if not on their car. If so you choose to use Session 1 and 5 as your means to get a fast lap, then do so but it will not be recorded. That said, depending on the level of participation, we can change Session 5 as recorded session.

** Topics still in discussion **
Awards
Schedule (NCRC has ~28 events for the season between Thill and LS)
Penalizing due to not-acting with proper etiquette on a race track - may not be as strict but they will be active.
And anything else I haven't yet discussed with NCRC or @CSG_Mike

2014 86CUP Challenge @ NorCal with NCRC

2014 86 CUP rules:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52982 --> 2 quick registration forms will be available at the track. Fill the header out with your name and car number, and show NCRC timing person when picking up the transponder - your name will bind with a transponder at that point. Keep the papers for yourself after. If for whatever reason I can't make it to the track, I will ask for driver name, car number, and class from the participants prior to the track event. NCRC will then email/upload that day's results. And I will announce the winners via online post.

NCRC has created the 86Cup registration option in their event listing. If you want to participant, select the 86Cup button during registration and you will be categorized. At the day of the event, continue to register as an 86Cup driver and rent a transponder. You still need to select your run group as the group you are most comfortable with or have experience in. At this time, the Solo group (least track experienced) is not included in the 86Cup due to safety and experience so NCRC is willing to go thru a check-out process. At your discretion, you may ask NCRC to go thru this process with you.

2014 Schedule of events:

Sat March 22, Thunderhill
Sat April 12, Buttonwillow
Sun April 13, Buttonwillow
Sat June 28, Thunderhill
Sun June 29, Thunderhill
Sat August 2, Thunderhill
Sun August 3, Thunderhill
Sat September 27, Buttonwillow
Sun September 28, Buttonwillow
Sat October 25, Thunderhill
Sun October 26, Thunderhill
Sat December 27, Laguna Seca

Best of 9 of 12 events count towards season point total

THill x7
BW x4
LS x1

Scoring:
1st - 10 points
2nd - 7 points
3rd - 5 points
4th - 4 points
5th - 3 points
6th - 2 points
7th+ - 1 point

SPONSORS:
- Counter Space Garage has been very generous to help create this cup and therefore has also stepped up to provide anything at their disposal to our NorCal group. CSG is well aware of NorCal's group and is more than willing to provide consumables and anything else we may need. Please support CSG for any parts you may need. Jonah [@finch1750] has volunteered to organize group-buys from CSG. He has successfully organized past similar events. Refer to NorCal's 86Cup when ordering parts and supplies.
- LPI Racing (Livermore) has also stepped up to be a local provider for our track needs! They stock Bell, Simpson, Hans device, suits, gloves, shoes just to start. Unlimited safety equipment, liquids, hardware, and track-experience makes them an asset to our NorCal community. Always willing to share info, chat, and advice - they are a pair of guys that has been where some of us want to go. Refer to NorCal's 86Cup when inquiring about stuff.
- MANN Engineering(Santa Clara) to help provide even more generous assistance to our 86Cup participants. Conveniently located in Santa Clara, CA, they house an impressive collection of necessary tools and equipment to satisfy all of your cars' needs, including multiple lifts, a Maha Chassis Dyno, and Bosch alignment machines just to name a few. They provide an assortment of services for your FR-S/BRZ from an oil change, tech inspections to packaged performance upgrades that can elevate your experience to the next level. MANN Engineering's experience, knowledge, and facility also receives frequent visits from William Knose (of Delicious Tuning) to tune clients' cars.
Here's a list of goodies you can expect from Mann Engineering:
* 5% off performance parts from our advertised Mann Engineering Web Price. This excludes any packages that we currently offer.
* 10% off labor/installation/diagnostic rates, such as alignment, vehicle inspection, etc.
* Discounts are offered to those who participate in 3 or more events for the 2014 NorCal 86Cup series.

All SPONSORS will generously provide gifts at the end of our 86Cup season.


SoCal has been creating/posting threads about their 86Cup events that are full of info, comments, and such...
2014 86CUP #1 - Streets of Willow Springs - Jan 18, 2014
2014 86CUP #2 - Willlow Springs International Raceway - Feb 16, 2014
2014 86CUP #3 - Buttonwillow Raceway Park 13CW - Feb 22, 2014


** Save the date: Saturday MARCH 8, 2014. Start time: ~12-1pm. I have been scouting out a business park around the Mines Road area that provides a nice meeting pre/post stop to Mines Road. The business park is empty on Saturday's with very little to no cars - perfect for a lunch meet and drive, or just lounge. I'm looking to invite food truck(s) to provide immediate eatery. Any questions, comments about the 86Cup or anything NorCal will be answered. More details to follow... **

RSVP #2

Im totally in, let me know anything I can help u with!

Only concern i hv with NCRC is being too crowded, difficult to hv clean laps for good lap time....

This is awesome dude.Im also totally down to help however I can. You know Im not a huge track guy (yet) but would love to help with logistics until I get out there.

Exciting, subscribed for details! :)

Cool thanks. Yes, we may approach that crowdiness in different ways. We may have a few 'tricks' to alleviate some of that and give 86 participants a clean lap(s) before catching up to the crowd. NCRC has experience in these so they know how to reduce some of that.

Thanks! There'll could be more off-track duty than there will be on-track. Thankfully, NCRC has all the resources and experience for us to do minimal work and enjoy being at the track. That be a driver, spectator, or something else.

I've run S2000 Chrono Series with NCRC and it never got off the ground the way that we hoped for. I'm cautiously optimistic so we'll see what happens.

In fact, last year Chrono series run groups got folded back into the Open group due to lack of participation across all makes and models.

Speed SF (City Tech) seems to have the most momentum for time attack in NorCal right now with S2000 and BMW TA and I know they've been hesitant to add an 86 cup for now.

We'll see what happens when the SoCal influence wants to come up here and give it a try.

I think its worth giving it a shoot and see how it goes, it would be so fun if it works out like SoCal, maybe NCRC would be willing to give us dedicated session for 86 Cup


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Subscribed! I'd be interested in participating!!


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Sub'd. Will spectate especially if @RehabJeff86 is in.

No wonder thats why there was so many s2000s and e30 bmws at thunderhill yesterday. Speedsf was running a time attack. Someone hit 2:04 in a pretty much stock frs. This was running the bypass at turn 5.

They put similar time cars in the same run group during the time attack. It was pretty cool to watch.

In my estimation, the chrono series struggled because there isn't enough experienced enough drivers of any 1 make/model here in NorCal. I hate to say it but the track culture doesn't seem as big here as compared to SoCal where the 1 make series appear to be more successful. Furthermore, across makes/models it's hard to come up with a consistent ruleset to level the playing field.

I've noticed in the s2k series that gap between the experienced and not-so experienced is immediately evident and when the not-experienced participants know they can't win they stop participating. This proved true with s2000s and I imagine the issue will be even greater with the 86. Many of the 86 drivers are just getting into tracking.

Things that they 86 chrono has going for it over the the s2000 chrono is that the car is still toward the beginning of its life cycle, you can still go buy a new one, and the car may appeal to a larger pool of enthusiasts since its not as hardcore focused. More drivers in the pool to pull from. Also, particular to NCRC, the 86 doesn't have to pass a broomstick test just to get on track.

We'll see what happens...

2:04 in Thunderhill? I know smmmurf did 2:15.87 in an almost stock BRZ about a year ago, and that was almost on edge all corners.

2:04 is pretty impressive if it was "mostly stock". Know what kind of tires the owner was running?

@AyJay, thanks for the inputs. Exactly the kind of info warrantying this event. In short, ft86cup has a different format that may differ from what you have experienced. One of the major differences is that the first and last session are not counted - it's the sessions in between them where the fastest lap is counted and used.

Chrono runs until the very last session. This 86cup will give you the first session to warm up and the last session to do what you like - neither is counted. Rather conservative idea to the majority of 86 owners that are just getting into tracking.

yup, they announced it during the time attack over the PA. the owner lent it to his friend to run the time attack.

mostly stock, i think all he had was unichip, brakes, and wheels. most of the cars in the time attack were fully build race cars so that's why the announcer was shocked at the time.

owner is from southbay and goes to the southbay meets i'll have to ask if i see him.

Interesting ideas. Chrono format was the 1st session was your warm up, the 2nd was qualifying in order to determine the grid order, and the last 3 were the sessions that counted. I've observed that many people would set their best lap in qualifying (especially true in summer) when the track surface was still somewhat cool. Your next best chance was the end of the day session when the ambient temp would start to come down from the peak of the day. In the proposed format you lose the chance at the end of the day so you better make it count in your 1st scored session.

2:04 thats amazing time!! :bow::bow:

I don't think 2"04 in stock is remotely possible. Couple reasons.

1. My friend ran 2"12 with my car yesterday and he's pretty damn good, my car is mostly stock.

2. 2"04 is around the time for m3s and mildly modded s2k, we're talking about a difference at least 50 - 150 hp. Given the track at thunderhill has less corners than other tracks like laguna seca, straightaway speed becomes a large factor in going fast, and our car is just not good in going fast on straights.

It could be possible with R-Comp tires, but if that's the case it's no longer stock in my opinion.

This is a 2:04 run in Thunderhill with NT-01's. Although they are on a Spyder :laughabove:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MCAMKl5_DU&list=UUL-Rm-7D8xHVNA8Al7KmZtQ"]Boxster Spyder 2:04 lap time @ Thunderhill over the crows nest - YouTube[/ame]

Still debating whether or not I will throw my hat in as anything more than a part time particpant. I bought my FR-S as a fun, cush DD so I can go more track oriented with my other car.

I'm going to assume the NorCal 86 Chrono will use the same ruleset as the SoCal series. http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52982

I'm may be hesitant mod my FR-S up to the level of the "Street Modified" class and it appears the lowering springs I will install after 2/7 (T'hill day) coupled with my 225 tires already disqualifies me from stock.

I think the 2.04 was with the bypass on Turn 5

yes they were running the bypass, important detail. Ill update the original post.

That time was over the top (T5 Cyclone) on stock Primacy's with only brake pads and alignment. I think a 2:14.xx could be possible with the right conditions in that same configuration.

Yes, a change of format in hopes to have higher participation based on relaxed, less "racing" environment. As stated, most 86 owner are just getting into tracking so the format proposed to NCRC is that the 1st and last session (be it 4, 5, or 6 sessions for the day) are not included. The 1st session is warm-up, be it you are an advanced or a begining driver. The last session...in short, SoCal didn't count this and NCRC sounded happily inviting when I mentioned it. Things could change.

I understand the advantages of running until the last session. And if the participants are wanting and willing to do so, then I think that would be fine. Personally, I'd like to get my best in the middle sessions just because less sessions could equate more tires, brakes, and other consumables.

In the meantime, YES, the idea is to get your best lap in the sessions recorded.

Yes, same rules apply regarding points and categories. But if you find NorCal can have more or less advantage by doing something different, let me know. I'm sure the drafters' of the rules are a quick PM away :)

Disqualification from one category to another just means you have that much more you can do. This isn't a challenge of deep pockets, but more about skill.

Here are my thoughts.

1. The success of this series lies in the hands of you guys. If you guys consistently show up, the series will gain momentum, and be successful. On the other hand, if you just post on the forum a lot, but rarely ever actually show up, then... well the series will flop like the other chrono series.

2. NCRC is overly strict with offs. They want you to compete in a series that culminates with going fast, but penalize you if you make a mistake trying to go fast.

3. CSG will definitely sponsor the series if there's a viable audience. Remember, sponsorship is all about ROI. The more dollars that are flowing our way from NorCal, the more willing the boss will be when I go to him with a proposal to sponsor a NorCal 86 CUP.

4. Citytech may be a better partner. Contact Patrick Chio and let him know you know Mike with the white CR that drives the CSG brz.

First post edited.

I'm sure there will be no shortage of people that'll want a ruleset changed based on their current level of modification. I don't wanna be THAT guy.:D

Besides, it would probably be a good idea to keep a consistent rule set between SoCal and NorCal since it would offer the chance for easy crossover between the series.

I hear what you're saying in theory but in practice the deck is stacked against the guy with 0.75 pts vs. the field of people with up to 3.5 pts. One can quickly grow tired of bringing a knife to a gun fight.

I think people need motivation to keep showing up. In my observation there has to be something in it for EVERY participant to make them want to keep spending the funds required for an expensive hobby. I've observed this in both many different areas and chrono and autoX were 2 of them.
Perhaps you can share what kept people coming back in SoCal. Was it really that people were just gung-ho for the series? Was it a tight knit group of core friends that keep it going?

While true, this isn't what kept S2000 Chrono from prospering. I think it had more to do with the lack of committed people along with the level of experienced allowed in to compete. By the time all the barriers of entry were fullfilled the driver pool was relatively small. Barriers included only Open (advanced) or approved Point-by (high-intermediate) drivers, modified enough to pass the broomstick test, split into make, further split by modification. There just weren't that many of us left to make a good series.

It also hurt that that the SoCal group "sponsored" (read: bought) the racing/track sub-forum on S2ki.com and basically censcored/snuffed out much of our visibility in our most influential forum. Complete disservice to NorCal because the SoCal series did absolutely nothing for our market.

Perhaps a sponsor might entice them from their current stance.

CSG BRZ vs... Evasive FRS.

Halp. :cry:

It's all about building a community. The 86CUP draws out far more people than the 86 Challenge and 86 Battle. Why? The community. I think we can all agree that the rules for the 2013 86CUP were by far the worst of the 3 (addressing an above post about inequality within classes).

The largest socal s2k series consists of drivers that are NOT competitive, skill wise, and the series also has the most open ruleset (you can make STUPID fast cars and fit into classes). Again, it's all about community. A friend an I showed up to this larger series, wiped the floor, and never went back. The drivers there like to compete amongst themselves, and it's not fun for them to get demolished. Likewise, my friend and I never went back; it's not fun when there's no incentive for us to push to go faster.

I do agree regarding the stringent rules: I never ran NCRC's chrono series because I don't have a roll bar. I legitimately pass broomstick. I was told my first and only NCRC day, that if I went 2 off, I'd be sent home, because I didn't have a roll bar.

It was a defensive move toward another organization that tried to encroach on established territory. NCRC was collateral damage, but here's the thing: The other group posts exclusively in the socal section, and consistently has larger turnouts. Again, it comes down to the participants.

Show us the turnouts, and CSG will make something materialize.

I guess if you're serious about winning trophies, you'll read the rules carefully and build a car to the maximum under one of the predefined classes. I could be totally wrong here but I feel like the vast majority of the NorCal community that is interested in doing track days, is more out to have fun and learn how to be a better driver.

At least that is where I stand personally. I am not particularly competitive, but if there is a system in place (86CUP) already and it's a minimal cost to participate (transponder rental, maybe some other enrollment costs) then I'd join in it whenever I can. I don't currently have the means/freedom to campaign an entire season in the competition, but that might change in the future and I'd love to be a part of this anyway I can.

Oh and let me put in a good word for CSG Mike and CounterSpace Garage... well before they ever started sponsoring anything, they've been a great resource to me and to this 86 community sharing all kinds of knowledge and help to anyone who asks. Reason enough alone to encourage folks to support them and buy any performance-oriented goodies from them when possible. :)

^Pretty much my feelings. I'm in the same boat of doing trackdays for self improvement (I specifically don't time myself during the event and check myself after with my gopro footage). With work & family, I'm limited with what I could do, but @MyRx let me know what I could do to help :thumbsup:

I would feel this way. While I was seriously looking at autox the mod restrictions like oil coolers turn me off. I will do a bit but have no feeling to get competative because I like to do what I want with my car. 86cup rules are very welcoming in that aspect. I would much rather skip 3 autox and run a track day. While I am competative by nature I am driven by wanting to improve and love the group, so racing eachother would be fun no matter what I feel like.
@MyRx will it be specific track days or basically anything on the ncrc schedule?

I'm in when ever im at nrcr events which will be many this year

There will be no door-to-door racing per se. No dedicated "86Cup session/run group" as of yet. But if you are in the same run group as another 86 participate as well as in the same car-class (stock, street, modified, etc) then yeah, you may find yourself side by side trying to get the faster time. Abide by NCRC rules and run group etiquettes please.

Let's say, you and I are in the same run group / same session but your car is in the stock class and mine is in the modified, your times will pool with only those in stock class, mine will pool with those in modified class. Your class depends on the points given by the mods on your car.

This could very well exist, but let's say a driver who has a low-scoring car (stock, street class) just happens to be so fast that he dominates that class - no one in that class is relatively close, then that car/driver can be placed with other drivers (regardless of car class) who has relatively similar times. @CSG_Mike falls in this category of "Super Modified" when the modified class has far more mods in their cars.

There will be no extra enrollment fee. The transponder fee as of now IS $25 but depending on the level of participation, that may be reduced and/or packaged into an 86Cup registration. What you pay with NCRC is what you pay, 86Cup participation is voluntary. That said, if you chose NOT to participate, you would still be invited to anything 86Cup related. You just may not be able to win anything 86Cup related as well. Just because you don't participate doesn't mean you can't enjoy 86 ownership like the rest of us.

Schedule wise, NCRC has ~28 tracks day, some of which are also Chrono days. Following suit of SoCal's 12 days, of which only 9 are counted, I'd like your help to pick the 12 days. I've been told that holding the 86Cup days with the Chrono days is beneficial. So if you have a preference of days, you can post it here or you can PM me. Obviously high participation is the goal so if most people can't attend a particular track day (weekday, holiday, etc), then we may not choose those days. Also, if we can conclude to a set of track days, I will forward it to NCRC and see what "encouragement" they may or can provide.

Obviously let others weigh in, but I'm thinking track days on a Saturday will have best chance of good strong participation. :)

weekends work best. :happyanim: