Won't go into first when hot and in traffic
 

Hey guys

Sometimes when I'm driving in deep traffic I'll try to put the car in first gear but I get locked out. I tried having the dealer look at it but they couldn't replicate the problem.

So anyone else experiencing this?

When the car is moving or stopped?

Because I believe you aren't supposed to put it into first if you're going fast than 5 mph...

Agree with this except not sure on the actual speed. If your car is rolling in traffic, there is no need to go to first. It places unnecessary stress on the transmission and engine, don't do it unless after you come to a complete stop

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Have noticed what OP is talking about; not really a temp issue, but when going over a certain speed it is difficult/impossible to go in to first (like when coasting in to a stop sign, I would try to put it in first preemptively; no longer).

Just uh, don't put it in first until you're going slow enough. Worked for me!

Use 1st gear when the car is completely stopped. If you're already moving use 2nd.

What everyone else said. Also double clutching usually makes it easier to get into first.

I downshift into first at like 15mph sometimes. Pretty sure there's no lockout...

i know exactly what you are talking about OP.

in order to disengage the 'lock', tap your gas pedal, as RPM goes a bit up, it will slide right into 1st gear

Always rev match. Every gear. Especially a downshift to first!

Why would you ever need to downshift into first?

Because there's a stopsign handy and I want to practice for slow corners? I didn't think downshifting to first was a real thing either until I drove Pike's Peak. When you're entering a 15mph, steep, uphill corner at 9,000 feet, you really don't want to take it in second :3

I've started doing it all the time for my driveway here at home, too-- it's transition from a steep hill onto an even steeper driveway end and has a not-so-great transition that you really want to take slowly to avoid scraping or just upsetting the car as you accelerate up it. You can do it in second-- barely-- but you really lug the engine doing it. The car is much happier in first.

It's really not much harder than downshifting to any other gear once you get used to it. You just need to be a little more precise with your rev-matching than usual.

The following is a comment that is inappropriately applied to the OP's question because it applies to a specific situation that the OP did not describe. It therefore may imply to some other readers that shifting into first gear "... at like 15mph sometimes..." is advisable.

In this case when one states a procedure in their initial post one should explain the circumstances. In this case, describing that it was a Pike's Peak situation and not a common driving habit.

I've had the same problem climbing Mount Hamilton in a mark one MR2. Switchback, uphill, at granted less than 9000 feet, you really need to be in first gear to get out of the turn. I'd recommend rev matching, and/or double clutching. If you're on the flat, and don't need a lot of power, just go to second gear.

Ummmm it was in direct response to this dude:

...who implied that there's a speed-related lockout on first gear? There is no such thing; that's all I'm saying. If the OP is getting locked out of first gear then something is Wrong(TM).

There is no lock out for 1st, but I'm pretty sure there is no syncro for 1st either. So even with the clutch, it's not the easiest thing to do to get it in 1st when going much faster then 5 mph.

There's definitely a synchronizer for first gear, otherwise from a dead stop you'd have a hard time getting it into first and you'd need to double clutch it every time, once to spin up the intermediate shaft and once to get it into gear.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

The problem the OP had was the extreme difference between engine speed and wheel speed when trying to go from second into first gear. The easy solution is to rev match between gears getting the engine to a more comparable speed to the intermediate shaft, or you can also double clutch, thereby bringing down the speed of the intermediate shaft closer to the speed of the motor. The latter would mean a heavier jerk as the motor had to spin up to wheel speed very quickly when you release the clutch a second time, so with decent transmissions in performance driving situations, it's better to rev match when down shifting. There is a certain "touch" required there, so that you know how much to rev match, as too much gas or too little will also upset the suspension, potentially sending you into a spin. In a nutshell, all that is why race car drivers are far more under appreciated than they really deserve by your average driver.

Triple cone carbon synchronizer on first and second, possibly on third though I concede third might be double cone. I don't have the TL70 spec sheet in front of my right now unfortunately.

It's odd that you speak of double-clutching and rev matching like they mutually exclusive. I never just rev match without double clutching. If you don't engage the clutch while rev matching then the input and output shafts won't match speeds.

Correct me if I am wrong, but solely doing rev matching will match the engine speed to the correct ratio of the wheel speed for the next gear. So you get rid of the jerkiness (clutch forcing engine to correct speed for next gear). But, you are still relying on the synchros to match the input and output shaft speeds.

I've had this happen to all my cars. Completely stopped at a red light, disangage (press) clutch, try to shift into first, no luck. Solution is to depress and press clutch again and it goes in. I didn't think it was an issue and have never forced it into gear.

How soon after stopping? Could be the input shaft is still spinning (that's the clunk you hear when you put it 1st at a stop).

Most times I've been sitting at the light for at least a minute or two. I don't normally try to shift into first as soon as I stop. The BRZ has only done it a couple of times though unlike my previous Hondas which used to happen at least once a day.

They aren't mutually exclusive, but one is a lot easier and quicker. Rev matching is done when you're trying to get into gear in the middle of a turn that you're already at the limit of adhesion. Double clutching is done when your transmission is a POS. ;-) My other car is 29 years old, and I don't need to double clutch, so I'd wager that if you do need to double clutch, you probably have synchronizers going out and should get that looked at.

Correct. When you blip the throttle (accurately) the engine RPM (approximately) equals the output shaft RPM (x gear ratio of next lowest gear), but since you disengaged the input shaft from the engine with the clutch before you blipped, the input shaft is still spinning at the old engine RPM. When you put the gear shift into the sequentially lower gear following the blip, the syncros must spin up the input shaft to the new engine RPM.

While that sounds bad cause poor syncros are being worn (gasp), that's exactly what they were designed to do! Everyone's got a soft spot for syncros, but they have been engineered to be used in exactly this way for the life of the vehicle.

Kudos to those that double clutch, but you aren't wrecking your transmission by neglecting to do it. It's like saying you're wrecking your brakes by using those. Under normal use, the syncos in your transmission should last 150,000-200,000 kms. At which point they can be easily replaced with either patience or money.


More regarding the OP's message: If you can't get it into first gear while standing dead still, I'd have that looked at. Try replacing your transmission fluid first though. I know I had a bit of trouble when the transmission was cold. If you're rolling, you just need to do a hella good job of rev matching like others have said.

And I'm glad others have corrected the hilarity of first gear not having a syncro.

Maybe our definitions are different. To me, double clutching is disengaging the clutch twice when downshifting and rev matching is something you do to match engine speed with what it should be in the lower gear. You would never double-clutch and not rev match, but I definitely see a lot of people that rev-match and don't double clutch.

Rev-match no double-clutch:
1. Disengage clutch
2. Shift to lower gear
3. Raise RPMs (blip) to match lower gear
4. Engage clutch

Rev-match w/ double-clutch
1. Disengage clutch
2. Shift to neutral
3. Engage clutch
4. Raise RPMs (blip) to match lower gear
5. Disengage clutch
6. Shift to lower gear
7. Engage clutch

Rev-matching only will help save the life of your clutch and provide a smoother downshift.

Rev-matching while double-clutching will do everything rev-matching will while also taking the load off your synchros.

Just double-clutching with no rev-matching does nothing.

And I do know that I don't need to double-clutch. And I don't need to rev match. And I don't need to drive a manual transmission. I do all of it for my enjoyment. Executing a few near perfect rev-match downshifts while double clutching and braking (heel-toe?) is a fun feeling.

My problem happens when I'm at a dead stop and not rolling. It is good to know I'm not the only one that noticed this happening in their cars.

I have the same issue. Currently in the process of replacing the clutch and flywheel. Will post again when I have results. I sent you a personal message mrha.

All 7 gears in this car (1-6 and reverse) are synchro'd. That's why there's a reverse lockout. In a 5 spd, I'm pretty sure reverse is not synchro'd. I could be wrong on that, though.

I think you're right, reverse is usually a straight cut gear.

THATS what that noise is! I've been wondering if it will go away when I change the fluid.

@mrha

Stopped at a light, shift to neutral. Light turns green, won't shift into 1st, usually getting stuck halfway through.

Solution is to go back to neutral, clutch in, and try again.

Suggestion (for those who still have the problem): Clutch pedal in, hold for count of two, shift into second, then immediately up into first. One may not have the need for the two-count.

Everybody in here has recommendations on a routine to get into first: to depress the clutch, when to rev, shift into another gear first, etc. Fact is if I have to do a whole series of things every single time I want to shift into first then there's a problem that needs to be addressed. I don't want a routine to get into first gear in stop and go traffic everyday. Does anybody know why I can't get into first? In my case I can't get into first, second, third, or any gear. It doesn't matter if I rev, hold in the clutch, or pump the clutch. Eventually the only way for me to get into gear is to shove it in with serious force.

So I had the same issues as the OP: When I came to a stop and left it in neutral I could not get back into gear. I wouldn't be able to get into any gear unless I jammed it in with hard force, usually into third gear, and then I could shift into first. The only way I could get into first gear reliably was by shifting into first gear as I came to a stop at about 2mph.

Because I couldn't get into any gear it didn't make sense that it was the 1st gear syncro. I assumed it was a failed clutch. I have an aftermarket ACT clutch and flywheel. I had them taken out and there was uneven wear on the flywheel which makes me think it was a bad clutch. ACT covered the clutch under warranty and replaced it. After installing a new clutch and flywheel the problem is gone. Not sure if this applies to stock cars but if the symptoms are the same I'd look into it being a bad clutch.

[ame="http://youtu.be/UW94DINwTGU"]http://youtu.be/UW94DINwTGU[/ame]

Here's a video of the sounds coming from my bell housing when I depress the clutch pedal in my car. I'm going to take it next Thursday to have it looked it. It helps to send a video to the service advisor of any problems you have with the car before coming in.

Well, that sounds fucked up.

Has anyone pin pointed a solution that didnt involve replacing the clutch and flywheel? or is a whole clutch replacement the only solution?

My BRZ is having the same problem. I do have an aftermarket 6 puck clutch with light flywheel, and its got to a point where this happens every day.

This is funny...

:popcorn:

This post and the previous one are so dumb that they should be deleted so others won't be confused. There are numerous reasons you want to go to 1st w/o stopping. If you have to go first after complete stops, you will drive like idiots or grandma in heavy traffic. Just need to make sure to rev match and gently push the shifter into 1st. That is all.

This comment is strictly speaking wrong. Rev matching means that you can put shifter in gear first, then you rev UP the engine to match speed of transmission. The purpose is to have a smooth transition. Here, OP cannot put in 1st gear at all. So the correct term should be double clutch. The 1st blip is to match transmission and drive shaft. The 2nd blip is to match engine and transmission. With syncros, the 1st blip can be skipped for most gears, but not the 1st.

The correct way to get into ANY gear when you are moving is to:
1. Go neutral gear
2. DON'T touch clutch pedal.
3. REV
4. Clutch in and push the shifter into the appropriate gear.
5. Still clutch in and REV
6. Clutch out

With syncros, 1-3 can be skipped if you want for most gears.