What is the highest HP/Torque going all motor?
 

Hi!

Love my BRZ. I am a huge enthusiast...that is why I bought the car.

I eventually want to do a "build".

Obviously, handling and throttle response is where I feel this car can be improved.

Wheels, Tires, breaks. Those are will be the first things for me to mess with.

Eventually I want to get a little more power out of the engine.

In the past I have had larger engines (350Z, SRT8 Challenger...6.4 liter).
I have had Turbos (2011 STI)
I have had a Supercharged Car (88 MR2 S/C)

I never really enjoyed my STI. Great car, but I missed the instant throttle response of a N/A motor or even a S/C motor.

So I am guessing I will go with a S/C or try to do smaller changes to engine to remove the torque dip.

Idea...
Full Exhaust
CAI
Reflash
New larger injectors?

Down the road...new Cams should be available?

Or is the S/C just the way to go?

I put a ton of time and money into the 350Z for very marginal gains.
While the S/C MR2 was easy...swapped 2 pulleys and boom more power.

Anyway, I have been doing a TON of research on here. I am just curious what kind of numbers people are getting from staying N/A.

I have seen what appears to be reliable 250HP 200ft/lbs torque from S/C. (WHP #'s here)

Wonder if 225 HP/ 175 ft/lbs torque is attainable? (going N/A)

With the engine already having such high compression pistons...I wonder if it had all of the power already wrung out?

Of course 225 NA is possible. How big is your wallet?

i got 191.4 hp/ 151.9 torque with just borla headers, k&n, berk muffler delete and a tune on 93 octane. so you could get a few more maybe with replacing the rest of the exhaust components. Then you would probably have to go internal if you wanted to keep it n/a.

LOL afraid of that answer!

I don't want to go down that road again.

Will keep scanning looking forward to builds.

There must be a reason that most builds end up going the FI route.

Highest RWHP *FULL* Bolt-Ons? (Looking for 200-215)

na hp

Max NA HP on pump gas as of now?

Have you hit 200whp NA?

Most power Normally Aspirated?

That's because it's easy to make power on boosted cars. For 500 bucks you can pick up 70 tq and 25hp on a GTI. I'm sure you knew that with your STI

I don't know of many modern 2 litre engines that won't break 150bhp/litre with enough money spent on them. I'm not talking about bolt-ons, either. You'd need to find a proper engineer/engine builder.

Yeah...can always go to machine work and forged internals (though I think our car already has forged internals?)

Pipe dream from my AW-11 days...the Formula Atlantic motor. Though it was essentially 25 grand for that (not willing to spend that).

@Anthony TYVM for the links. I had found 2 of those...seems there hasn't been someone to nail it down yet.

I guess what I really need to look into is which S/C I am going to get lol.

Yeah, the general consensus seems to be that the stock throttle body is already pretty big, no one makes an intake manifold, and the factory cams are good enough that there probably won't be any good off-the-shelf aftermarket ones available for a while, as all the companies are still mostly focused on boost. Best you can do for now without breaking the bank is I/H/E and a tune.

Oh, and E85, of course. If you're so lucky.

Exactly what I'm doing on 93 octane. Waiting a few years on FI due to cost and monitoring reliability of kits.

My only beef with E85 is the fuel lines, lack of gas stations that cary it, and the car not being designed around it. I'm sure it works outstanding for some and the power boost is great, but for a daily driver, killing my gas mileage for more power doesn't make much sense.

I'm lucky to be in the midwest. There is an abundance of E85 here so I run it almost exclusively in the summer. Due to cold start issues, and snow i go back toy stock tune for the winter to keep the spinning tires down.

Althogh your mpg may go down, the cost per gallon is down as well and my actual cost per mile on 85 is below 93 at least here in the midwest.

I've also run it in my car for well over 15k miles inclucing several autocrosses with no adverse effects.

I talked to several people about the fuel lines, pump, and stuff, and I was reassured that it would be fine long term. I think it was in this thread: http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45155

Really? Those are two of the best things about this car in stock form.

Yeah, premium is sitting around $3.26 right now. E85 is $2.87. There's only a couple stations in the area that have it currently, but the number is growing. Who knows, I may try it later on. The free power gain it provides is pretty awesome. Not to mention, it makes running boost a lot safer.

E85 for me ranges from 2.20-2.60 while pump is around $4 per.

I think I read one time that a (very) general rule of thumb is that E85 gets about 15% less distance per volume than E10 or E0. I've never even seen an E85 pump in real life, so I'm certainly not the expert. But I do know that if it's 15% less efficient but 45% cheaper, it's still cheaper.

I meant new tires would be helpful..

And I didn't wanna mess up the current throttle response.

I worded it very poorly...was kinda in a hurry. Was posting at work between patients.

Just slap an Innovate kit on and call it good.

As @Anthony mentioned, intake, exhaust and tune will help, but also getting rid of rotational mass. Light weight Crank, light weight flywheel, carbon fiber drive shaft, light weight wheels and gears are going to be the best bang for your buck if you want to stay NA. You won't have the actual horse power to back it up, but the car is going to rev faster (and get up to speed faster) and a lighter car is always a good thing.

I'm not planning on doing much to my car, but this would be the rout I would do if I get bitten by the mod bug. I've owned a couple factory supercharged cobras and heat was ALWAYS an issue.

Good point. And if we're going to get into that, I have two powerful words:

FINAL. DRIVE.

Personally, I'm thinking 4.88, but I've been called crazy before.

I was looking at 4.55's to keep my mileage somewhat decent, but 4.88's would do the trick nicely! :party0030:

The installation of the 4.88 gearing would double as a funeral for 1st gear outside of standing starts. I'm fine with that, though.

Mines a dd so if anything I want a taller 6th gear not shorter.

As for weight I think 100-150 is the most keeping stock interior and not spending 10k on brakes wheels and seats...

Personally I'd bore it out to 2.2L before putting 3500 into seats or 1k into shorter drive

Do the light weight crank pulleys make a noticeable difference/and are they reliable?

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Has anyone done that yet? I haven't actually gone looking, but I've only seen it mentioned hypothetically. The only engine I've ever actually looked into having bored out was a Toyota 2ZZ, but the cylinders in that engine are too close together. So I've gotten used to the idea of engine boring being an unrealistic idea, but... this is a whole new engine to me.

This is what I came to post. CF driveshaft is where you're going to get insane bang for your buck. From everything I've seen, past the header replacement you're wasting money buying an exhaust even with a tune.

Keep in mind, people love to throw stupid large heavy wheels on their cars and it's no different. If you can get lighter wheels, tires, driveshaft, flywheel, and crank pulley you're looking at seriously increasing WHP without touching the exhaust.

I thought it was header and overpipe? I was under the impression that the rest of the exhaust flows pretty well. The stop up is in the front.

I went full engine back simply to save weight. Any power gains are merely an unnecessary but fun byproduct.

I should save ~49.5 pounds compared to stock.

until you drive a tuned brz you wont know what throttle response you are missing.

my car put down 176/151 on a mustang dyno with all i have is a perrin intake and catback (so no serious mods)

i think breaking 200 is possible but like people said, how deep are your wallets. i think what i'm going to do is go the Header front pipe and get tuned then eventually go the SC route if the motors are holding up.

but i really like the idea of being NA...there is some kind of je ne said quoi about being all motor.

Best bet is to go with a High Quality EL header, exhaust, Intake (if you want), and a tune.

From there you can decide where to go, and how much you want to spend,

A lightweight flywheel and Clutch will help free up some rotational mass.

As mentioned already, Carbon fiber Driveshaft, pulleys, wheels, etc. will help.

you could go ab it further on the NA power with a Flex-Fuel tune, or keep an eye out for some good NA powermods like Cams, Intake Manifold, headwork to rev it etc.

If you really just want 225whp and you don't care about staying NA then just go with a S/C kit, get the power you want (and more) and be done with it, for less money. The nice thing about going with a S/C is pretyy much all of the above "NA" mods will work with a S/C kit and gain you more power.

Or go Nitrous ;)

Surprised nobody is looking into higher compession for more power. If boosted guys are pushing 10psi on 93 with 12.5:1 cr im sure a bump up in compression is do able, and pretty easy.....assuming that shaving the head and block dont affect the DI spray angle negatively.

Toda hi-comp stroker kit will be out soon. If you're baller enough that is.

Read a comment above about just putting an innovate sc kit on. I thought that as well. So I bought one. 4 weeks later I took it off and sold it.

Nothing beats NA.

I'm not certain about the overpipe, but from what Bob @DriftOffice has told me and what I saw on his dynos, it was primarily just the headers if I'm correct. He did also mention with exception to the JDL UELs which are a fart under the HKS EL in gains, that UEL is definitely the way to go for performance if you don't care about sound. My personal opinion has always been function over form, so I could give a crap if ELs don't sound as good as long as they're top performers.

Sure you're going to get weight reduction and a lovely look and sound from a full exhaust, but it's money better spent elsewhere first if you're going for speed. For just over the price of most full header-back exhausts you can get a CF driveshaft which is going to give you an immense benefit over the exhaust.

And as far as FI goes, I wouldn't consider SC over a turbo. Especially the AVO kit.

Re final drive. Best way to calc what to get is to base in on your local race track.

Our gearing is pretty good in these cars, except for 5th to 6th, its a big jump, certainly not one you want to have to make on a race track. When calculating this way, also consider that you may have extra revs to play with.

For example, my 200rwhp NA ae86 hits 5th gear limiter about 100m before I need to brake. That's with a 4.3 FD, which seems tall, but I run 195/50/15. In 5th (which is 1:1 like most 6 speeds) @ 8000rpm, its doing 202km/h. Changing the FD to 4.1, gives me 211km/h at the same revs in 5th.

So, I know that for myself, I want to aim around that 210km/h mark for the new 86. Because, even if it gets to 200rwhp, it won't weight 900kg like the ae86 does.

I run 205/40/17 semis on the new 86. And I'll work to my rev limit being 7800rpm. Based on that, 4.1 is ideal for me. Say if I swapped out to a 4.5, I'd only reach 194km/h in 5th.

What I'm getting at, is don't just assume "ZOMG final drive is teh business!11!1!!one!"
It moves all your gearing.

You need to do your own calc before changing final drive. Your rev range, tyre circumference, and target speed at a particular point, are all critical variables.

And I for one, certainly want to avoid the 5th - 6th change on the back straight.

For the money I'm doing headers ( hks el or nameless if they ever get released) 2.5"dp , tune, aluminium ds(Axel exchange ), light battery (shorai LFX 27/36) depending on money and juice required.


Seems to be the best bang for your buck so far.

Although after watching 2 Phantom electric superchargers on the dyno and the beautiful torque curve on them, I'm seriously considering it. I just wish it turned on below 80-85% throttle. But once they get the intake obstruction issues fixed (coming soon I hear) that thing is going to be an AWESOME and cost effective FI solution that can be removed in 30-45 minutes.

Seriously, Bob at Drift Office will set you straight. Exhaust should be an afterthought after you're done with everything else, unless you're going full FI. Even then, the gains didn't seem to be anything spectacular.

Yep like the others said I plan to stay NA and do header, tune, FD, and lots of lighter weight parts.

According to the EPA and other sources the average difference in fuel economy between e85 and e10 is ~25% lower for e85 and closer to ~30% lower than undiluted gasoline.

I'm not saying that 225whp NA isn't "possible" but has anyone actually done it? I've yet to see more than 210whp NA.