Vortech Finale Review Video | Track Testing | Part 4 of 4
 

Americanizing the FR-S |Vortech Finale Track Review | Part 4 of 4


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Previous Videos in Series:



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https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1...0-no/part2.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-D...0-no/part3.jpg


PART 4: SERIES FINALE VIDEO:

0:00 - 1:10 Intro
1:12 - 4:50 Automobile Magazine Test Drive
4:56 - 5:40 Wheels and Brakes
5:40 - 8:12 One Lap with Turbowski
8:15 - 12:13 Track Impressions with Peter J and Turbowski
12:15 - 13:05 Final Impressions on Perrin Tuning and Support
13:05 - 16:30 Post Track Fluids and Maintenance Checks
16:33 - 18:33 Final Thoughts on Vortech
18:44 - 19:30 Chasing Down Problems and Final Thoughts
19:32 Credits


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGVbTktgi0Y"]Scion FR-S BRZ Supercharged Track Review Finale | Part 4 of 4 - YouTube[/ame]




Scion FR-S S240


Testing began in April and after nearly five months of we have concluded evaluation on street driving, auto cross and track. We have met most of our goals. Americanizing the FR-S has mostly been a success. We have attempted to help the community by providing transparent details, videos and general information about the FR-S and BRZ with little bias. We are not and will never be vendors and have no interest in selling products or services. All we want to do is to help produce meaningful content, reviews and help other enjoy the ownership experience for years to come. This approach has been successful in garnering support from owners and vendors in terms of support that would not have been possible otherwise. We are grateful for this and thank all who are involved.



Goals:

• To design a street car that was fully capable on any track with very little compromise in daily operation.

• To create a serious sports car that would delight the hardened driver and delight those who expect practicality.

• To retain and allow for 4 seasons operation with little sacrifice.

• To increase power output, improve grip and technology features while still retaining near OEM fuel economy.

• To retain the spirit of the original car by keeping the intended balance and fun factor in place.

• To keep stock fuel system in place allowing vehicle to operate in any state using 91-93 Octane with no anxiety.

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Planning for the Finale


· Work with Vortech Engineering and Brian to address any final fitment issues with the kit.


· Work with Jeff Perrin and Chris Cone to make sure our Perrin tuning was setup in a safe state for some of the hardest driving the car will face.


· Discuss brake options with Jeff Ritter at Essex / AP Racing about solving brake anxiety.


· Coordinate with Peter Jankovskis on private track sessions at Autobahn Country Club for durability testing.


· Schedule and work with Automobile Magazine for testing and review for November issue.




Preparation:


We knew that the car was running well and with our v11 tune revision from Perrin installed, the car finally felt refined in drivability, something that was critical. We received our AP Racing Spring Kit from Essex and performed the install. We knew that for the Automobile Magazine Review we needed to address any and all brake anxiety. After owning and operating a Lotus Exige and Ariel Atom with AP Racing brakes we knew that what we wanted was something designed by brake experts that were track focused but were not obscene to replace or service.


FULL AP BRAKE INSTALL REVIEW HERE:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44745



We bled the brakes and bedded the Ferodo DS2500 pads in preparation for the Automobile review on a Saturday in Michigan. We changed the wheels to Enkei RPF1s at 17x8” mainly because Essex designed their brake kit using these wheels and we were after only weight savings and not much else. This allowed us to switch to 235/45/17 Hankook Ventus RS3 tires. We were running the 225 RS3s and loved them. Despite knowing from the track guys that 235 width appeared to be slower our extra power output forced us to switch to them for stability.



The Trip to Automobile Magazine:


From Illinois to Ann Arbor Michigan we stopped for an alignment check and then at Tire Rack to have them switch the tires on our new wheels. Typically I have switched to Discount Tire for these services but they have longer lead times on tires. Of course this choice proved annoying as when Tire Rack was finished they had wrote in sharpie the wheel location on each wheel which would not come off and they wheels were not filthy with the tire lube. Normally I could care less but since the car was going for a photo shoot it pissed me off I had to stop and clean them.


After arriving in Ann Arbor one thing was clear, the hotel they put us up in was quite nice which made up for the long drive.




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Michigan Roads:


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I have been in Michigan plenty of times and never understood why people always said their roads were bad. Well lets just say the closer you get to Detroit and Ann Arbor towards the center the more it was like entering a third world country. It was the only area in the Midwest I had been where 4 on ramps in the town connecting to major interstates were closed because of road conditions. The car was on a stock suspension, clearly Toyota and Subaru never tested the car here. It made me realize why so many people around me were in monster trucks and SUVs. This was not the place for any sport car or firm suspension setup.




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Automobile Magazine Test Drive with Chris Nelson


We met and I took a tour of their office, learned about the different teams involved in producing the articles and photos for e-readers and physical media. They then showed me how they lay out new issues using a white board. The entire time I thought to myself how this was my dream job when when I was in my 20s. Now that I have my own career, cars work better as a hobby. And let’s face it working for a big publication means one thing: you can’t be honest without losing your job.


Chris and the photographer led me to an abandoned GM plant for the photos. Either they were going to tear my clothes off and leave me for dead or actually shoot the car. In this case although I have a stellar body severally oiled up, they started photo shoot of the car which was perfect for the “Americanizing” concept. After about 2 hours of driving in circles and doing lead follow the process ended and it was time for Chris to drive the vehicle.





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He took the wheel and started his initial driving test to familiarize himself with the car. It was then onto the highway to test some acceleration and braking.
After about two hours of tooling around he started to get ballsy and wanted to launch the car which I allowed but was not very keen on. This car with super sticky tires requires a high RPM launch to get anything going. Since ECUtek has a pseudo launch control program set, I instructed him to hold the car in first with clutch down and floor it to activate it. There was clearly some communication issue as his first attempt was a rev to redline and release the clutch. The result was glazing the disk and a stench like someone burned ET with a propane torch.



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Exactly what I did not want to happen but let’s face it this is to be expected when someone else goes and tests your car. His further attempts worked better but it was clear to launch the car you need clutch damaging levels of revs.


After he completed the performance tests and impressions we sat down to eat and discuss the project and article. He asked me why I was doing this, and it hit me as much as I hated modifying cars it was exactly what I was doing, and I was strangely annoyed by it all. But I felt in this case I had some purpose here maybe something to prove. At the end of the day I had no idea where this would all end, but the end game in this project was to learn and help others. Chris will be writing about the tuning obsession in the November issue, but his impressions overall were simple it was a car that he would drive every day and not be embarrassed.




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Track Testing with Peter J. – Autobahn South, Joliet, IL


The car was driven from Ann Arbor Michigan back to Joliet Illinois for our private track day with Peter J. After 4 hours and countless additional hours behind the wheel I was tired. But once Turbowski arrived at the garage packed with all the cover your ass tools we needed, pulling into to Peter’s private garage that holds his SRF fleet and Lemons BMW was a relief This garage was more of a shop/house, with living quarters upstairs, lifts and all the supplies you would need. Scott met Peter working with Elite Motorspors as a crew mechanic and from his help in World Challenge. I met Peter in Karting and he is one of those guys you rarely meet, a great guy, fast driver and very successful.




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However, in karting it was a love hate relationship. He was a chess player, deadly consistent with the seat time and skill to make you pay for any mistakes. His driving style is metronome consistency. In racing, I struggled with consistency.



There were times where my focus and speed were dominant but overall, I was always settling for 2nd or 3rd. Peter and Turbowski were constantly at the top. Even as Turbowski battled in the spec classes, I was always struggling to get ahead and stay ahead. But the point was we all have had seat time together and can basically run the car and come to some solid conclusions.


At the end of the day this was a street car, not a race car and that is where things are much more difficult.




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Our first three sessions were getting a feel for the car, learning the limits of the suspension, tires and braking thresholds. I made it clear this was a durability test not a ball to the wall sprint. We discovered a vibration we had only under left hand turns. We looked at everything and thought for sure it was wheel rub. After listing to our chassis/floor mounted mic it was definitely something vibration related. Problem is you can’t re-create it on the street only under full load.



We spent plenty of time in the shop and we believe the vibration is related to the engine moving under load causing the Perrin over pipe making contact with the Stranoparts Sway Bar. The Strano bar is probably a great choice for a stock car only doing autox. But honestly I had rubbing noise and issues from the get go. Sam the designer of the bar has 14 national championships in autox and I am on the same page with him in terms of setup. But, his bar has issues and so does his attitude about it. It’s coming off for our next track test.


Other than that for the last two sessions I sent Turbowski out so I could focus on video and data logging. His last session was open ended almost solo. After about 40 minutes on the track I was wondering if he was ever going to pull in. Finally he told me, “Holy shit, I almost ran out of fuel or I would not have come in!” The car is thirsty, blowing through roughly 10 gallons of race 93 Octane in 40 minutes.




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Final Track Impressions:


Engine


We had zero issues with knock or performance degradation after over 2 hours on track. Performance was consistent. Turbowski wanted more power but he felt overall the car was about as perfect as you could get for a street car on track with plenty more left on the table even on stock suspension. Peter mirrored that by saying the Vortech was perfectly suited for the track as the high end was always pulling. The Perrin tune did the job here providing that safe operating window and everything felt consistent lap after lap.


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Brakes

@jritt


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Our AP Racing brakes were amazing. We could not get the brakes hot enough to use our full race pads from Counterspace Garage @CSG Mike.



We stuck with the hybrid Ferodo DS2500 and had zero fade. We drove them to the track and left with them. We only had to add a small amount of brake fluid back in the system.




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Cooling


The oil cooler worked well up to 30 minutes, after that the temps went from a fairly solid 240F to 255F. After talking to Jeff Perrin he said if we were going to run frequent 40 minute sessions it was best to upgrade to a bigger core. As the coolant was now running at 210F constant. This could be the efficiency of the Koyo or just the fact the engine is generating more heat than the small oil cooler and radiator can handle. However as a work around our next test Jeff will be sending us a flash revision that cycles on the cooling fans at 200F instead of the factory 212F to see if that improved efficiency. So our 30 minute tests showed the cooling systems working well. Past that oil and coolant start to rise past stable levels. We had burned through some coolant as well due to evaporation.



Suspension


What was amazing here was even with the wider super sticky RS3 tires the chassis still have plenty of overhead on the stock suspension. We do have camber kits with street safe alignment levels but it was clear this car could takes so much more power than what we were feeding it. Now could we improve lap times with a properly setup suspension kit, probably. But we were left questioning why even bother when this was primarily a daily driver. The stock suspension performs so well that it’s actually something we are afraid to touch.



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Plenty of the track guys claim this car is faster on 225 rubber. We can’t quantify that but the 235 tires made this car much more stable feeling which improved confidence. Turbowski’s complaint was it was too stable almost too predictable. The 235 setup however definitely slows steering response, my bet would be that a staggered 225 front and 235 rear would be optimal but at the expense of tire rotations. Sacrificing tire rotations for slightly quicker turn in response is not worth it.




Post Track Analysis:


We knew for a street car over 2 hours on the track is extremely high wear. We decided to change the supercharger oil, engine oil, trans oil and diff oil as well as bleeding the brakes and refilling coolant. Our alignment did not go off which was excellent news for once and all of the fluids changed without drama. Tire wear was excellent as well the car provided itself to be as reliable as we hoped.




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Our Radium catch cans were working as we captured a good 2oz of unspent fuel and blown by oil from the track day. Another reason for those with FI to seriously look at this.



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We decided to send out the engine oil for analysis to Blackstone and also the trans fluid after seeing how horrible it looked and smelled. As it turns out our engine oil after 3000 Miles with 2 hours track 30 minutes of autox and long test drives looked as perfect as it could. Our catch can was working, no wear materials and our Redline TBN was looking extremely well. It seems this motor is happy and reliable with the Vortech Kit and Perrin Tune.




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ENGINE OIL

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The transmission on the other hand is a caution area. After the track day the shifting was noticeably different. Gear changes felt smooth, no binding or hesitation but going into 3rd and 4th were definitely slicker. It’s possible we just finally got the co-webs off or just wore the fluid down. The oil looks grey as it poured out, the fresh fluid was a near amber color. Based on the Blackstone report they said it could be from the case, or bearing wear. They don’t have enough data from these transmissions to know. But suggested we send another sample to monitor the aluminum levels.




TRANS FLUID



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Vendors:
@PERRIN_Mladen
@PERRIN_Chris



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This project for the most part started with my contact to Jeff at Perrin. I explained what I wanted to do and he supplied me almost everything that was needed to see the project through. During the speed bumps Chris Cone supported my weekly questions in terms of issues with Vortech and the tuning process. Their customer support and reputation as a tuner and manufacturer are very good. Initially their responses to my tuning questions were slow but again this is because they have a full shop.



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In terms of Vortech Supercharger there is not another major tuner who has been more involved than Perrin since the start. This is exactly why I chose them. They actually own a daily driven Vortech BRZ. What you get is a safe stable tune that has proven to work without any drama or damage to the motor thus far. If all you care about is max power you may have to go elsewhere.





VORTECH FINAL REVIEWhttps://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f...no/vortech.jpg
@Brian@Vortech



We started the drama with the Vortech kit. And we stand behind our impressions that documentation was poor and some of the components were rushed to market. But let’s end some of that here by saying after our video we have talked directly to Vortech including engineering about documentation to improved parts. Thus far they have been following through on all the recommendations. We are going to finally recommend this kit as the top supercharger solution for the following reasons:

• Overhead– Given the kit is intercooled and logically designed the ability to make more power on 93 octane and E85 is much higher than any other readily available supercharger. On 93 octane with the stock fuel system 250HP is a safe reliable target. For those with upgraded injectors, pump and with smaller pulley 300HP is easy to reach.

• Made, supported and engineered in the USA with large vendor network.
• Easy to tune compared to Innovate and Turbo setups due to the linear power delivery and stable charge temps.

• Support is excellent and online presence is always there, these guys will try and make it right.

• They are listening and fixing items like intake tube, air box bolts and documentation.

Now of course not is all golden, the install can and will be a bitch for first timers until documentation is updated there are plenty of holes in instructions with room for error. The washer fluid tank is garbage bin quality, including brackets. This needs to be improved or offered as an upgrade. Vortech never intended to include it so basically they half-assed one together just to say they tried. No offense Vortech but that’s the truth.



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The oil change interval sucks. (7500 miles), it’s one of those fine print items you learn after the fact. Granted after your first few oil changes it’s quite easy to do and cost is low however it’s another item you have to deal with. The big question remains that remains is winter weather performance. For those who don’t stow the car away it’s an unknown whether we are going to destroy bearings on cold weather starts.




CONCLUSION


There are a few other issues that we have detailed but we stand behind our choice to use Vortech and they have proven that they are serious about supporting this car and have went above and beyond for our project. We are confident in the kit now after testing. And now recommending it if you want a supercharger. In fact until Innovate decides to intercool and offer a proper IAT solution the Vortech is the only supercharger to consider if you plan on daily driving and running at the track reliably without making fuel system changes and adding other cooling solutions.


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GREAT review! Thank you for all you do for this community! I've learned some awesome information from your videos!

Video went down half way thru it

It got axed for some bogus copyright claim. I re-uploaded.
Will be up in 25 Minutes.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAHFqMJkvSc"]Supercharged Scion FR-S BRZ Track Review Finale | Part 4 of 4 - YouTube[/ame]

@Dezoris thanks for the awesome work :) hopefully we could see another story maybe

Curious what alignment you are running

Thanks again mate. I haven't watched the video yet but did you happen to say which revision tune file and which map you ran it at on the track?

Ran v11 on track. I will be posting logs as well to show charge temps and more. The next revision will be more custom to include the lower fan switch point.

Thank you so much for all the videos, they've been FUN!

always blown away by your production quality. you do video professionally or as a hobby?

Great review(s) man. I enjoyed watching all of your videos.

Looking forward to watching the video tonight. Nice to see some media coverage of a Forced Induciton BRZ/FR-S that didn't overheat or have major tuning issues. Wish it was mine, but I am glad it was yours.

Great video and conclusions. Please keep us posted on your findings on the pentosin smell

Rev11?? i feel so behind.

255F oil temp and 210 water temp. That doesn't suggest to me that your oil cooling system isn't adequate, it suggests that your water cooling setup isn't (aka: how effectively air flows through it).

240F-260F for oil is a sweet spot IMHO. Just not for 0w-20, unless your oil pressure is still at 70psi at that temp. I'm pretty sure your oil pressure was lower than you may have wanted it. Just run 30 or even 40wt to bump pressure at those temps (depending on oil pressure at that temp).

But for water temp, trying to cut down on oil temp to address water temp is really taking the indirect route IMHO, especially if you're oil temps are just fine. Tackle the water temp directly.

A) increase shrouding so the air cannot flow around the radiator and is forced through it.

B) wire a switch such that the fans are running the whole time

C) Remove A/C which will reduce the impedance of the air trying to get to your radiator.

D) Install a larger radiator/more efficient radiator.

For a street car, I'd probably look at a combination of A and D first.

Here's why I would also recommend option B:

I assume you have an A/C condenser AND an intercooler in front of your radiator. Intercooler--gap-->A/C Condenser--gap-->Radiator.

What's important to note is that there is a gap of air between each of these and your radiator. Because not all 3 things sit flush with each other (touching), as the air flows through one, it creates a large amount of turbulence in that gap and when the air meets this turbulence it looks to follow the path of the least resistance. This is is where shrouding comes into play. By removing any other path for the air to flow it's forced to overcome the turbulence and then more of it finally flows through your radiator (which is the last thing in the chain to see the air). The other thing is leaving those fans running. By having the fans on the whole time, they create a low pressure on the back side of the radiator and this will make it easier for the air flowing past your a/c and intercooler to make it into the radiator by cutting down on the turbulence that results in those gaps, well at least on the gap between the a/c condenser and the radiator.

Before you go spending more money... fab up some shrouding and keep those fans running, you'll be amazed at the difference it makes.


Last but not least, if your oil cooler is also mixed up on all this, then the shrouding will improve it's functionality as well.

The trans fluid is the only red flag thus far. I will be posting in the fluids forum to get others to sent out samples for.comparisions.

As far as the videos there are two more being released soon, one for suspension and the other from the FA20club interviews with Toni and owners.

I replied after reading the thread but I finally watched the video. I like the presentation and editing. Looks like you're either shooting for a future in auto journalism or are just pretty natural at it. Good work nonetheless.

I'm gonna stay tuned about the trans temp. In the Honda world when we've stepped up to 9k rpm engines we've noticed that some of the H and B series transmissions would see 300+ degree tranny oil temps and that is something that needs to be addressed on any car that's going to be beaten on for more than 30 minutes. A fellow racer is addressing this very issue and is installing a manual transmission oil cooler setup for a highly strung B-series enduro race car.

Since you're in the habit of sending oil to the lab, I'd be very curious if you have any desire to run something besides Pentosin in your tranny for the type of use your car sees?

Thanks,.I already have larger radiator. The shroud makes sense for sure but dont know if you read it but having Perrin give me a track only tune to set fans on always or at 200f would be easy and simple without changing anything to test.

As far as heat IMO the oil is overcooled on the street right now. The issue is the longer track sessions. This is the difficulty in building a balanced street and track car. Track cars are much easier to do.

Not debating your oil temp statements but talking to our race shop and perrin. They all set said optimal track oil temps are 230F. I believe even Robi runs for that target ad well but he also runs e85 to keep his Innovate kit from knocking the motor to death.

Thats good info I was actually worried about trans temps, did the S2000.have similar issues like you mentioned?

Truthully I only run Pentosin because it was the only fluid that worked in the winter without crunching up my second gear. Now.though for heat may not be effective.

Truthfully the car will never run longer than 25 min sessionz again so its one of those finding the upper limit things.

Thanks for the kind comments about the video as well.

awesome review and videos. Thanks again for all your hard work.

I don't know on the S2000 only B and H series FWD race cars. Partly due to the layout in the engine bay, but partly also due to the fact that the differential is inside a FWD transmission. With a RWD the diff is in the back the trans doesn't see as much heat as it's FWD counterparts.

I would want to know definitively what temps you're seeing before anything gets recommended.

I did read that but I think a manual switch might be good and to just leave the fans on the whole time might be better then waiting until the water temp has reached 200F for track purposes. That's just internet brainstorming at this point. Remember that they are creating that low pressure, allowing the turbulence in front of the radiator to be reduces and thus more air to flow. I'd rather be cookin' around the track with 180F water temp instead.

Maybe an oil-cooler with a thermostat?

I will concede the fact that oil temp, like any temp when FI in involved, it's wise to keep things cool.

After seeing all the video's, and they are great, 5-7K for 50hp is not worth doing!

You make great informative videos but I get the feeling you wanted the car to perform like a Porsche and were unhappy to realize its not. Some of us actually like this platform and your negative view of it rubs me the wrong way.

I think you just need more power.

:burnrubber:

You should up the boost install a header and get a more aggressive tune and post your findings :D. Or do a review of the 300whp car you mentioned. That would be a great contrast to the more calm "street oriented" review. I think the most important thing here is a good tuner and knowledge of supporting mods (injectors, clutch, etc.) which also unfortunately increases cost and potential headache. But I think personally it would be more worth it to me to go through that headache.

After seeing this Vortech is capable of 300-350+ on e85 and up to 300 on 93 that seems very promising for potential. Personally, 240*bhp* would leave me very unsatisfied in a F/I build.

At least, if I end up going for F/I that's what I'll be aiming for

The way I have it setup is about 55 HP over stock.
Up from 155HP at the wheels to 212HP.

With the more aggressive map I can make 240HP which is 85HP more.

For track you don't want to be running high timing advance it's too risky, but for street you could run with 85HP extra all day.

I just was out doing video at a dyno day with FA20club and Nelsmar's Vortech kit made 307HP with E85 or 150HP more than stock That's basically the same setup as mine for 6k.

How do you feel about that?

Isn't he running injectors at least, at 300whp level?

The way I really feel is that it's a budget more practical Lotus Elise.

I enjoy driving it way more than the Exige I had. But the thing is I don't get wound up about these cars. It has excellent potential. Otherwise I would not be wasting my time doing all of this.

Thing is I am going for reliability, I was trying to test and prove where that point is. I don't want a car always in the shop.

Nelsmars only mods are injectors, pump, E85. No exhaust, headers or oil cooler.
But any car running over 260HP will need injectors and pump on the FA20.

Thats the point where the duty cycle starts getting maxed out.

One of the main reasons I am staying conservative is because I don't have to mess with any of that. And the car just works well in all conditions.
If you want a rocket then you have to spend more time and money on more supporting mods. But the potential is there.

Dezoris for President!

That would ruin my approval ratings.

Excellent review & video as always @Dezoris. Why "SavageGeese"?

-1.5 F
-1.3 R

Toe out front 1/8th
Toe in rear 1/16th

Much more than that and street wear suffers.

Good video Dezoris. I don't own a Vortech unit but this is very helpful to the FA20 community.

I'm surprised by how much HP was lost with the conservative tune. I would have suspected more like 10-15 hp shy of the ragged edge, but 30 :iono:

I tried Pentosin, and was unimpressed. It still crunched second when cold, and sometimes even when warm.
A Canadian member (can't remember who) posted good things about Redline Lightweight Shockproof. I switched about 500 miles ago, and am happy. Cold is as good as the Pentosin, warm is noticeably better. Living in SoCal, I don't contend with super cold starts. It is rated 75w140, so I would think it OK in the cold, while holding up to high track temps better.

Just an FYI: A good tuner can calculate the intake temperature after the innovate, its just basic thermo. The concept has been used for years and is explained in Corky Bell's books. There is an IAT sensor solution available for the Innovate for tuners who don't trust adiabatic charts. At +50hp you are adamant that an intercooler is a requirement but you may want to keep an open mind about that. I haven't ruled out the twin screw just yet, the simplicity may prove to be a good thing in the long run.

I am getting tired of this argument.

I have yet to be in or see logs on someone car running 91 or 92 octane that has great performance that would be stable on the track.

It wont safely operate under extended load on 91 or 92. You have to run e85 or meth injection along with fuel system upgrades.


I just watched evo4g63s tune and drama with Tony tuning on 91 then switching to e85.
The car was not happy on 91just was not stable.

It went from 190hp to 230 because of fuel. Issue becomes most anyone running this kit hard needs e85 because of cooling and tuning stability. I understand you dont need an IC and it can be tuned around.

But this kit is sold world wide with an intercooler. Ecutek directly said they dont understand why it is being sold without one. Secondly you lose flexibility of running all fuels safely and running e85 kills your mpg dropping you into the 17 to 19mpg range.

You dont have any of these issues with the vortech which is why its the better kit out of the box on all fuels for street and track and it has more over head.

The Innovate with e85 feels great though amazing torque.

Wow I won't argue with you but you're basically saying the twin screw alternative is not even road worthy. Guess I'll hold off on FI for a while longer. Hope you keep your car and keep us posted with long term stuff.

I am a bit surprised you consider the stock suspension perfect, I find the front spring rates a tad too low, it translates into a slight uneasiness taking turns thru hills not a big deal but its there. Have you taken a trip thru rural southern Illinois yet?

Thanks again.

After looking at your fluids analyses, you're feeling good about running this setup for a long time or are you a little uneasy about the longevity? I know there's been a lot of speculation about how well this transmission will hold up under the added torque of FI. What are your thoughts?

i'm with dezoris on this one. selling an aftermarket blower to people in florida and arizona etc with no intercooler and no provision for an iat is just stupid. they should've just waited and done it right, but they were under pressure to get it out the door.

typically i'd never recommend a centrifugal s/c for any application, i view them as an unnecessary compromise, but in this case it's a no-brainer. if you absolutely must go s/c the vortech is the way to go. the innovate kit just doesn't offer much in terms of power out of the box or breathing room, and it seems rushed to market, missing key pieces that need to be there (ic and iat).

if you drive an innovate car, there's a real good chance someone with an n/a tune on e85 could outrun you in a straight line. you won't have that in a vortech car. isn't that the whole point of fi?

190-220whp doesn't make for a very fast 86.